# Two questions about Global Warming (one is about the properties of water) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2004, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557 "2004-11-13T11:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/21 "2004-11-13T21:21:58Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Global climate change may be the norm. Who knows? It’s a fascinating subject. There’s no question that it’s the norm. The question is whether we are causing an accelerated change outside of the normal fluctuations. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/22 "2004-11-13T21:54:31Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Now then…Question the first: I was reading an essay about global warming today and the guy kept going on and on about the temperature rising by “as much as 4 degrees” over the next century. I’ve been hearing this for years and I gotta admit, it kind of makes me scratch my head. If I go outside and it’s 94 degrees, and then I walk outside again later and it’s 98, the world hasn’t changed. The birds are singing, the Panthers still suck, and I likely don’t even feel the difference. What are the dangers of the temperature rising a few degrees? Well, yes, a 4-degree rise in one day makes no difference. But we’re talking about a 4-degree rise in the average temperature over year. So, it might be normally 4C in the Winter and 28C in the Summer. This might increase to 8C in the Winter and 32C in the Summer. Even then, it will still take many years for the damage to happen. > [@](#): > > Second question, same essay. The guy was also talking about how the ocean levels were rising because “everyone knows that warm water takes up more space.” Hmm, I didn’t know that. Neat fact if true, but I’ve **never** heard that before. What’s the dope? Yeah, perfectly true and well known. Everything expands as it gets hotter, liquids and solids too. Have you ever wondered what makes the level in a thermometer go up as the temerature rises? It’s the expansion of the liquid in the bulb. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/23 "2004-11-14T11:42:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Utter rubbish. Spoken like someone who has no understanding of scientists or the way science works Actually, it’s absolutely true. Lomborg published and was excoriated by other scientists - **the DCSD said he was ‘objectively dishonest’** - but was later vindicated by the Danish Ministry of Science. See [http://www.imv.dk/Default.asp?ID=233](http://www.imv.dk/Default.asp?ID=233) > [@](#): > > It would be worth your while to read some of them. It might be worth your while checking your statements before you post. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/24 "2004-11-14T20:54:18Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Please note that these questions have NO political motivation behind them. I am not a “Global Warming denier”, a Republican, a Democrat, or even a Canadian. I’m asking these questions purely out of curiosity. > > Now then…Question the first: I was reading an essay about global warming today and the guy kept going on and on about the temperature rising by “as much as 4 degrees” over the next century. I’ve been hearing this for years and I gotta admit, it kind of makes me scratch my head. If I go outside and it’s 94 degrees, and then I walk outside again later and it’s 98, the world hasn’t changed. The birds are singing, the Panthers still suck, and I likely don’t even feel the difference. What are the dangers of the temperature rising a few degrees? > > Second question, same essay. The guy was also talking about how the ocean levels were rising because “everyone knows that warm water takes up more space.” Hmm, I didn’t know that. Neat fact if true, but I’ve **never** heard that before. What’s the dope? Walk down a road on a cold winter’s day and walk up to a bonfire. Although the road was cold, the air near the bonfire is warm and toasty. Now imagine yourself walking down that same winter’s road and being as warm as standing next to a bonfire. Wouldn’t you say something’s amiss? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/25 "2004-11-16T01:46:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Actually, it’s absolutely true. Lomborg published and was excoriated by other scientists - **the DCSD said he was ‘objectively dishonest’** - but was later vindicated by the Danish Ministry of Science. > > See [http://www.imv.dk/Default.asp?ID=233](http://www.imv.dk/Default.asp?ID=233) > > It might be worth your while checking your statements before you post. Also rubbish. Lomborg was not “vindicated” by the Danish Ministry of Science. They just criticized the DSCD for not having sufficiently documented the methods by which they came to their conclusions. They did not indicate that Lomborg was correct. Many other scientists have provided detailed critiques of Lomborg’s methods and conclusions. A summary of some of them can be found in the Scientific American article: [Misleading Math about the Earth](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000). Lomborg has been criticized by scientists not because he is “polically incorrect” but because his science is bad. Many respected scientists have published articles critical of or contrary to one or another aspect of global climate change theory. Some of these criticisms have held up, and others have not. But as long as their data and methodology have been legitimate, they have not been “excoriated” or criticized by other scientists just for having gone against the conventional wisdom. The cardinal sin for scientists is not iconoclasm, but bad science. Fifteen years ago there was no strong consensus in the scientific community about the reality of Global Warming. Many scientists at that time felt that it was likely, but that the evidence was not yet conclusive. Since that time sufficient evidence has accumulated that it has convinced most remaining skeptics beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/26 "2004-11-16T03:29:05Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The problem is that scientists have a bit of a tarnished reputation. Global Warming is a Politically Correct theory, and people are afraid to stand up and present contrary views - look at what happenned to Lomborg. You’re right about that - global warming has gotten the label “Politically Correct” attached to it. Think about that. Who would admit to being “Politically Correct”? It’s amazing to me that the vast majority of people I’ve discussed it with believe either that global warming is a fiction, or that it’s “still unproven”. And yet these folks still manage to believe that they’re the freethinking minority. It’s amazing how insidious and effective propaganda has been in some areas. Repeat lines like “unproven theory” often enough, and people will start to believe it’s true. The scary part is that they’re working on doing the same thing with natural selection. > [@Quartz](#): > > And, of course, it’s a terrific money-spinner. ‘Our research indicates that further tests are required …’ Except that climate scientists aren’t saying more tests are required. It’s energy companies and Republican politicians who claim it’s still unproven. > [@Quartz](#): > > Lomborg, of course, may be drawing entirely the wrong conclusions, but people need to draw their own conclusions. No offense, but what basis do you or I have to draw our own conclusions? I don’t know about this shit. However, the great majority of scientists with expertise in the field agree, and that’s about the best I can do to decide. I’d rather be with the scientists than against them - seems like a safer bet. > [@Quartz](#): > > Just the other week, there was a natural history program on the BBC showing that London was once a place inhabited by lions and hippos - i.e. tropical warmth in the quite recent past - a previous interglacial. And we’ve only just come out of the Little Ice Age, so we may well be still warming naturally. Lions at least were very widespread in prehistoric times. I’m not quite sure when they died, but I’ve never heard that they were confined to tropical areas. I think they lived in cool and temperate regions. It’s just that they went extinct in most of their habitat, and the places they happen to remain are tropical now. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/27 "2004-11-16T11:35:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I thought this report was particularly ironic: > > [Global warming to expose Arctic to oil, gas drilling](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N08463342.htm) WTF? Is this for real? I had to double-check to make sure I wasn’t looking at _The Onion_. Whatever is the next stage beyond being boggled, is the stage that my mind is at after reading that. Why can _nobody_ in charge of _anything_ ever look beyond short-term profits? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557/28 "2004-11-16T14:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is that scientists have a bit of a tarnished reputation. The only reason scientists reputation is ‘tarnished’ is because of oil and other companies’ massive spending on PR. Not particularly suprising that they’ll spend money to protect their core business, of course, but doesn’t mean that we have to believe them. They’d also like you to believe that driving more and faster makes you sexier, cures bad breath, and makes your farts smell like roses. As Colibri and others have said, real scientific consensus is overwhelming that Global Climate change is real and that human actions are a major factor. Of course you can find _someone_ who disagrees; if you look hard enough you can find someone who thinks that cold fusion works, gravity is imaginary, and Michael Jordan sucked at basketball, but that doesn’t mean that the issue is really in doubt. And make no mistake, fossil fuel companies have spent millions to find the few doubters and have spent millions more giving them a megaphone so that it sounds like there is a real question, when it’s really two guys with a megaphone against 998 others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-about-global-warming-one-is-about-the-properties-of-water/274557.md?page=1)