# Two questions for you on illegal immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335 "2010-04-25T21:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/21 "2010-04-26T04:48:21Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > First question: What’s your opinion on governments controlling their borders? > [ol] > [li]I think all borders should be 100% free and open. People should be able to come and go as they please with no restrictions or limitations.[/li][li]I have no problem with governments regulating who comes in to their country, how many come in, and for what reason people are allowed to come in.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] > > Second question: What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? > [ol] > [li]Most of them are racists.[/li][li]About half of them are racists.[/li][li]Most of them are not racists.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] #1: Answer 2 #2: Answer 3 What we need to do is provide an improved legal immigration process. One that will offer protection, yet provide a legal means of entry that is manageable. Once here, we also need a strict process of tracking and reporting along with strict conduct rules that result in deportation for those that do not comply. The illegals already here will have x amount of time to apply via this process as well. Failure to do so = deportation. Those captured crossing illegally will be taken into custody and will provide unpaid manual labor for public works projects while their application is processed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/22 "2010-04-26T05:50:53Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > First question: What’s your opinion on governments controlling their borders? They have a limited right to control their borders. Stopping criminals for example in perfectly valid. But I feel that they (morally) have very limited rights to stop people from immigrating or leaving. [quote=“Nobody, post:1, topic:537335”] Second question: What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? [ol] [li]Most of them are racists.[/ol][/li][/QUOTE] This. They tend to be hostile to immigrants according to skin color. They in my experience tend to assume that everyone of a particular skin color is an illegal immigrant. And they are seldom concerned about the people who break the law by hiring illegals immigrants. It’s not about the law for most people, it isn’t even really about immigration; it’s about race, and self justification. We are exploiting them, so we demonize them in order to not feel bad for what we are doing. We set up the law to make it very difficult to impossible for them to enter legally, then blame them for entering illegally while setting up our economy under the assumption that they will. We rant about how they are evil criminals, but go after the poor brown skinned illegal workers, and not the white skinned illegal workers and rich white employers who break the law by employing them. > [@flickster](#): > > Those captured crossing illegally will be taken into custody and will provide unpaid manual labor for public works projects while their application is processed. Which I’m sure will conveniently never go though. Slavery under another name. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/23 "2010-04-26T06:11:46Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > Guess you don’t get the poll option in GD so we’ll have to do this the old fashioned way. > > I’m an American thinking about illegal immigration into America, but I’m wording this poll so that anyone from any country can answer. > > First question: What’s your opinion on governments controlling their borders? > [ol] > [li]I think all borders should be 100% free and open. People should be able to come and go as they please with no restrictions or limitations.[/li][li]I have no problem with governments regulating who comes in to their country, how many come in, and for what reason people are allowed to come in.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] > > Second question: What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? > [ol] > [li]Most of them are racists.[/li][li]About half of them are racists.[/li][li]Most of them are not racists.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] > > As for me, I have no problem with governments controlling access to their countries, and although it’s blatantly obvious that amongst people who are anti illegal immigration there are racists, I don’t think that the number is that high. Personally, I think people who have no problem with illegal immigration throw around the word racist too easily. Yes, here in America the target of anti illegal immigration are usually Hispanics/Latinos, but that’s because they’re the largest group of illegal immigrants: [Site](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55202-2005Mar21.html), [Site](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States). So to me, the fact that Mexicans or other Latin Americans get singled out as opposed to Canadians or people from other countries is simply a matter of numbers, not racism. So for the second question, I’m leaning towards option 3, but I could be wrong and it could be 50%, but I don’t believe it’s higher than that. So I’ll chose option 4, I just don’t know. 1. Governments should be able to control their borders - otherwise you aren’t really a sovereign country. 2. The reason people aren’t as opposed to Canadians is that they are more likely to assimilate and not require affirmative action or welfare. See below article for the problems of subsequent generations of Hispanic migrants. It explains how people often refer to previous waves of immigrants, but they adapted far more quickly. Now you’re creating a large underclass. > [@](#): > > They’re not just like the Irish — or the Italians or the Poles, for that matter. The large influx of Hispanic immigrants after 1965 represents a unique assimilation challenge for the United States. Many optimistic observers have assumed — incorrectly, it turns out — that Hispanic immigrants will follow the same economic trajectory European immigrants did in the early part of the last century. Many of those Europeans came to America with no money and few skills, but their status steadily improved. Their children outperformed them, and their children’s children were often indistinguishable from the “founding stock.” The speed of economic assimilation varied somewhat by ethnic group, but three generations were typically enough to turn “ethnics” into plain old Americans. > > This would be the preferred outcome for the tens of millions of Hispanic Americans, who are significantly poorer and less educated on average than native whites. When immigration skeptics question the wisdom of importing so many unskilled people into our nation at one time, the most common response cites the remarkable progress of Europeans a century ago. “People used to say the Irish or the Poles would always be poor, but look at them today!” For Hispanics, we are led to believe, the same thing will happen. > > But that claim isn’t true. Though about three-quarters of Hispanics living in the U.S. today are either immigrants or the children of immigrants, a significant number have roots here going back many generations. We have several ways to measure their intergenerational progress, and the results leave little room for optimism about their prospects for assimilation. [http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=YjQ4N2EyMTQ4NzZjZmNlOWQwN2RiNTZjMWZiZDY4YzQ=](http://nrd.nationalreview.com/article/?q=YjQ4N2EyMTQ4NzZjZmNlOWQwN2RiNTZjMWZiZDY4YzQ=) California is a glaring example: > [@](#): > > The unhappy picture in Los Angeles is replicated to one degree or another across much of California and is taking a huge toll on the state’s economic competitiveness and long-term prospects. California’s educational system, once easily the best in the country, is today mired in mediocrity near the bottom among the 50 states as judged by National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) tests in math, science, reading, and writing. And for the first time in its history, California is experiencing an increase in adult illiteracy. In 2003, it had the highest adult illiteracy in the United States, 23 percent nearly 50 percent higher than a decade earlier. In some counties (Imperial at 41 percent, Los Angeles at 33 percent) illiteracy approaches sub-Saharan levels. > > Perhaps even more important than the collapse of educational achievement among the lower strata is a deterioration of the higher education that was for decades the basis of California’s preeminence in science and technology. California currently ranks 40th among the 50 states in college-attendance rates, and it already faces a significant shortage of college graduates. Studies have shown that the economy will need 40 percent of its workers to be college-educated by 2020, compared with today’s 32 percent. Given the aging white population (average age, 42), many of these new graduates will have to come from the burgeoning Latino immigrant population (average age, 26). By one estimate, this would require tripling of the number of college-educated immigrants, an impossibility if current trends hold. The state’s inability to improve the educational attainment of its residents will result in a “substantial decline in per capita income” and “place California last among the 50 states” by 2020, according to a study by the National Center for Higher Education Management Systems. [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112167023](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112167023) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/24 "2010-04-26T06:24:18Z")
> [@](#): > > It serves as a means of allowing the inequities between nations to be ignored and even facillitated…For example, I, like many Mexican nationals I have known, are of the opinion that the REAL need is for reform within Mexico so that half the population doesn’t feel the need TO immigrate (legally or otherwise) to the US. The US government should be pressing Mexico to reform, not going along with the current corruption. I would think the opposite is the case. Open immigration forces countries to deal with their problems because not doing so causes a population drain. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/25 "2010-04-26T06:40:26Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The number from Mexico+Canda was 17, so I think its safe to say its basically impossible to get in to the US via the lottery if your from Mexico. In fact, it’s [literally impossible:](http://www.travel.state.gov/pdf/T1026V-DV-2010bulletin(3).pdf) “For DV-2010, natives of the following countries1 are not eligible to apply because the countries sent a total of more than 50,000 immigrants to the U.S. in the previous five years: BRAZIL, CANADA, CHINA (mainland-born), COLOMBIA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, ECUADOR, EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA, HAITI, INDIA, JAMAICA, MEXICO, PAKISTAN, PHILIPPINES, PERU, POLAND, SOUTH KOREA, UNITED KINGDOM (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and VIETNAM. Persons born in Hong Kong SAR, Macau SAR, and Taiwan are eligible.” ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/26 "2010-04-26T07:03:30Z")
The idea that US immigration policies is racist is insane. 27% of the legal permanent residents in this country are from Mexico. Of the top 20 countries from which immigrants come, only 3 are European. Canada is the only other country which is predominately white. Those 4 counties together account for less than 8% of permanent residents. At least 40% of permanent residents are from Latin America. That is not even taking into account the 29% of permanent residents from “other” countries. Only 3 of the top 20 countries of birth are English speaking. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/27 "2010-04-26T07:04:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I would think the opposite is the case. Open immigration forces countries to deal with their problems because not doing so causes a population drain. And that’s why Mexico is in such great shape; they are dealing with their problems. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/28 "2010-04-26T07:39:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The idea that US immigration policies is r@cist is insane. I know, but it an effective way of framing/manipulating the debate to shame opponents. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/29 "2010-04-26T07:54:59Z")
I think all borders should be 100% free and open. People should be able to come and go as they please with no restrictions or limitations. > [@](#): > > What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? Most of them are not racists. I’m going by the South African case here, where the vast majority opposition to other African illegal immigrants (Zimbabweans, Somalis, Nigerians) comes from Black South Africans, not Whites. Mostly, here, opposition is in the form of the following argument: “Many South Africans are still poor, almost 20 years after Apartheid. Our government needs to focus on uplifting its own people, and providing for refugees from other African countries draws away from that effort, especially when they are here illegally. This goes especially for people who live in shanties and see refugees being put up in halls and supplied with all their material needs by foreign agencies.” Now, I’m against nation-states in the first place, but I can sort of see the utility of getting your own region up before uplifting your neighbours, as it puts you in a better position to do that uplifting. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/30 "2010-04-26T11:19:12Z")
First question: 2 Second question: 4. I don’t think racism has much to do with it at all. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/31 "2010-04-26T11:32:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which I’m sure will conveniently never go though. Slavery under another name. The reason I specified unpaid was too try not to make being on a public works labor detail an incentive over their current life in their home country. However, I realize that the prospect of 3 squares and healthcare is still plenty enough of an incentive for many. ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/32 "2010-04-26T12:18:12Z")
I am going to say other. I feel that among very developed wealthy countries the borders should be open so anyone can move, work, reside with no restrictions. At a minimum I would include US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Western Europe, Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait. “Economic” immigration among these places would be minimal which is the primary thing immigration laws are trying to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/33 "2010-04-26T12:24:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Virtually everyone in Mexico would like to immigrate here. That is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/34 "2010-04-26T15:23:03Z")
> [@](#): > > And that’s why Mexico is in such great shape; they are dealing with their problems. Yes, they are dealing with their problems. Mexico has done a lot in the last few decades to address some of its economic and political problems. Maybe for the very reasons I mentioned. Compare that to a country like North Korea where everyone is essentially locked inside the country and nobody can leave. That’s a country which is avoiding reform. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/35 "2010-04-26T15:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I feel that among very developed wealthy countries the borders should be open so anyone can move, work, reside with no restrictions. At a minimum I would include US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Western Europe, Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Brunei, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait. > > “Economic” immigration among these places would be minimal which is the primary thing immigration laws are trying to prevent. Are you saying these countries should have an open immigration policy in general or an open immigration policy among themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/36 "2010-04-26T17:04:20Z")
I believe the borders should be opened, but not open. That is, we need to allow most of the people who currently cross the border for low paying temporary jobs to do so legally. Charge them a fee at the border- cheaper than what the smugglers charge, obviously- assign them federal taxpayer ID numbers, and grant them six-month work visas. Use the fees to defray the cost of patrolling the border and providing basic services. Limit medical care for undocumented workers to specific facilities set up and funded for that purpose. Most importantly, require employers to enroll in USCIS’ e-verify system and fine employers of illegal workers. Fine “under the table” employers of illegal workers the full amount of their workers’ unreported income, up to the federal minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/37 "2010-04-26T20:55:34Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > First question: What’s your opinion on governments controlling their borders? > [ol] > [li]I think all borders should be 100% free and open. People should be able to come and go as they please with no restrictions or limitations.[/li][li]I have no problem with governments regulating who comes in to their country, how many come in, and for what reason people are allowed to come in.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] 1. I have a problem with the standards set by the US today limiting immigration. I believe that control of the borders is good, but as the laws are written currently, they are too restrictive and racist. > [@Nobody](#): > > Second question: What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? > [ol] > [li]Most of them are racists.[/li][li]About half of them are racists.[/li][li]Most of them are not racists.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] 1. The people I see denouncing illegal immigration since it really became a big big issue about 5 years ago are mostly racist. Any peek into their rallies, their signs, the incendiary nature of their political hacks, and their solutions smack of overt racism ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/38 "2010-04-26T21:19:17Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The number of people that got in through the 2008 diversity lottery from Europe was 26,000. The number from Mexico+Canda was 17, so I think its safe to say its basically impossible to get in to the US via the lottery if your from Mexico. The number from Mexico and Canada was zero. [Cite](http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1317.html). That’s because citizens of Mexico and Canada cannot enter the Diversity Lottery. Your figure of 17 if probably those from the Bahamas. Countries excluded from the Diversity Lottery are those that already send relatively large numbers of immigrants to the U.S., including Canada, Mexico, China (except for Hong Kong), India and the U.K. (except for Northern Ireland). (I’m fairly familiar with the rules, because my name came up in the Diversity Lottery when I entered about 10 years ago, and I now have a green card based on that.) And my answers to the questions: (1) the U.S. should have some controls on immigration, just as all First World countries need to. In doing so, it should be trying to bring in people who can make a significant contribution to the U.S. economy because of the skills and qualifications. (2) I think that there’s a large segment of racism among the people most vocal about “illegals”, because they identify “illegals” as Mexicans. They don’t care about illegal immigration from Canada or Europe – in fact, they probably think that it doesn’t exist – because those people are white like they are.. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/39 "2010-04-30T03:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=InteresetedObserver] My view is we need to regulate our borders. Both of them ( the 9/11 guys came in through Canada) [/QUOTE] This is flat-out wrong. None of the 9/11 hijackers came in through Canada. They were all legally in the U.S., having entered from countries other than Canada, using valid documents issued by the United States. That doesn’t stop the myth from being repeated, from people who should know better, like Hilary Clinton, John MCain, and Janet Napolitano, the U.S. homeland security secretary: [Canada Fights Myth It Was 9/11 Conduit](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38816-2005Apr8.html) - April 9, 2005 [John McCain says 9-11 terrorists came from Canadan](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090424/mccain_mistake_090424/20090424?hub=World) - April 24, 2009: > [@](#): > > John McCain is the latest high-profile politician to repeat the diehard American falsehood that the 9-11 terrorists entered the United States through Canada. > > Just days after Janet Napolitano, the U.S. homeland security secretary, sparked a diplomatic kerfuffle by suggesting the terrorists took a Canadian route to the U.S. eight years ago, McCain defended her by saying that, in fact, the former Arizona governor was correct. > > “Well, some of the 9-11 hijackers did come through Canada, as you know,” McCain, last year’s Republican presidential candidate, said on Fox News on Friday. > The Arizona senator’s remarks prompted the Canadian embassy to immediately reissue remarks made earlier this week by Ambassador Michael Wilson, who reminded Americans once again that no 9-11 perpetrators came to the U.S. via Canada. > > “Unfortunately, misconceptions arise on something as fundamental as where the 9-11 terrorists came from,” Wilson said. > > “ **As the 9-11 Commission reported in July 2004, all of the 9-11 terrorists arrived in the U.S. from outside North America. They flew to major U.S. airports. They entered the U.S. with documents issued to them by the U.S. government. No 9-11 terrorists came from Canada.** ” ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/40 "2010-04-30T17:28:56Z")
Countries have every right to control their borders. Its a basic question of sovereignty. There is racism underlying some of the anti-immigration rhetoric just like there is racism underlying some of the anti-Obama sentiment but I don’t think it is a driving factor. For example if all the illegal immigrants were rich refugees from a communist revolution in South and Central America, I doubt people would be as upset about the illegal immigration problem regardless of the color of their skin. With that said, I am willing to bet which side of the debate most racists are lining up on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335.md?page=3)