# Two questions for you on illegal immigration **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335 "2010-04-25T21:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/41 "2010-04-30T17:39:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This is flat-out wrong. None of the 9/11 hijackers came in through Canada. They were all legally in the U.S., having entered from countries other than Canada, using valid documents issued by the United States. They had all entered the US legally, but some of them were on expired visas, had lied on their visa applications, were engaged in activities they weren’t allowed to do with their visa status, or otherwise were no longer legally eligible to be in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/42 "2010-04-30T19:20:12Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > They had all entered the US legally, but some of them were on expired visas, had lied on their visa applications, were engaged in activities they weren’t allowed to do with their visa status, or otherwise were no longer legally eligible to be in the United States. Yeah but they all entered the US legally. I think the idea is that while there may be a lot of reasons to crack down on illegal immigration, cracking down on terrorism is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/43 "2010-04-30T23:01:17Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > First question: What’s your opinion on governments controlling their borders? > [ol] > [li]I think all borders should be 100% free and open. People should be able to come and go as they please with no restrictions or limitations.[/li][li]I have no problem with governments regulating who comes in to their country, how many come in, and for what reason people are allowed to come in.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] Essentially 1, with the caveat that we should have the power to keep out the occasional Armin Meiwes or guy living on diet of outbreak monkey blood. But the burden of proof that said dude is a cannibal or harbinger of pestilence should rest firmly on our government. Innocent until proven guilty. I take the pale blue dot perspective that it’s fundamentally absurd and insane to draw an invisible line around someone at birth and tell them - for political reasons mostly involving rich men that they want fuckall to do with - they can’t cross it. > [@Nobody](#): > > Second question: What do you feel about people who are against illegal immigration? > [ol] > [li]Most of them are racists.[/li][li]About half of them are racists.[/li][li]Most of them are not racists.[/li][li]Other, explain.[/li][/ol] 1. I don’t know how many, but I don’t think 50% + 1 is any kind of stretch at all. A lot of people - no, a _shitload_ of people - are racist as all fuck, but so strongly innoculated against the word that even they can’t imagine that they’re such, and will perform all kinds of mental contortions to evade so much as the accusation. Doesn’t change reality. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/44 "2010-04-30T23:43:24Z")
I’m for rather open borders. I can see screening for infectious diseases & maybe fugitives, but it’s easier to keep track of migrants in general if they’re above ground & can be easily certified. “Closed” borders won’t make the USA more secure than tracking entrants. The idea that the INS rules are economically helpful is either an excuse or a delusion. (INS policy is not set by economic conditions. There are 3.5x as many unemployed Yanks as undoc’d aliens.) People who are against illegal immigration are often but not always racists. Some of them are devotees of arbitrary legalistic authority, some of them have silly ideas about economics, & some are bamboozled. A lot of people, though, hear the word “illegal” & assume being here without permission is a crime, & that that’s a normal rule. It’s not. It’s only in the last ten years we’ve moved to treating immigration without documents as a felony, & then only in some states. Previously, overstays weren’t locked up, they were deported, & we had no-visa-required movement between the USA, Canada, & Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/45 "2010-05-02T00:03:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah but they all entered the US legally.. Some of them didn’t. Like I think I mentioned, some of them lied on their visa applications. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335/46 "2010-05-05T03:39:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > [QUOTE=Northern Piper] > > This is flat-out wrong. None of the 9/11 hijackers came in through Canada. They were all legally in the U.S., having entered from countries other than Canada, using valid documents issued by the United States. They had all entered the US legally, but some of them were on expired visas, had lied on their visa applications, were engaged in activities they weren’t allowed to do with their visa status, or otherwise were no longer legally eligible to be in the United States. [/QUOTE] Thanks for the clarification on the details, **Captain Amazing**. However, my basic point is correct - none of them came from Canada, which is a frustrating myth that keeps getting repeated by some Americans, such as in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-questions-for-you-on-illegal-immigration/537335.md?page=2)