# Two teams tied for first--is the next team second, or third? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027 "2009-02-16T02:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/1 "2009-02-16T02:44:08Z")
In a sports league, if there are two teams tied for first, is the next team in second place? I would think third, because there are two teams ahead of it. In my son’s fifth-grade basketball league the basement team ranks 11th even though there are 15 teams ahead of it, because there are several ties for other places. In something like the Olympics, where on very rare occasion you could have a tie for the gold medal, it makes sense to still identify silver and bronze medalists. But in a sports league, your rank should signify where you fall in the league. I am just wondering what is normally done, just out of curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/2 "2009-02-16T02:55:34Z")
In serious sports, the team after two teams tied for first is the third place team. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/3 "2009-02-16T02:55:53Z")
If two teams are tied for first, the next team is third. Also, on the rare occasions where there is a dead heat for first place in the Olympic Games, i believe that they award two gold medals, zero silvers, and one bronze. [For example](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2000/swimming/news/2000/09/22/mens_50m/) ETA: And [here](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/results/2000/by_event/swimming_50m_freestyle.html) is the results table for that 50m freestyle; as you can see, 2 Golds, 1 Bronze, no Silver. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/4 "2009-02-16T04:17:17Z")
Results for this weeks golf tournament as posted at [Yahoo!](http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/leaderboard;_ylt=AkW3h5k4RGr7iMJdGVpXobcogsUF) 1 Dustin Johnson 2 Mike Weir 3 Retief Goosen T4 Mark Calcavecchia T4 Bob Estes T6 Kevin Chappell T6 Bill Lunde T6 Chris Stroud T6 D.J. Trahan ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/5 "2009-02-16T11:53:03Z")
Thanks! The standings appear to be automated and they just use the wrong algorithm. See [my web page](http://www.seiglefamily.com/royal), which hot links (with permission) to the league’s pages; standings are at the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/6 "2009-02-16T11:57:01Z")
In chess (including the Olympiad), it is as RickJay says: ‘In serious sports, the team after two teams tied for first is the third place team.’ ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/7 "2009-02-16T12:00:06Z")
> [@glee](#): > > In chess (including the Olympiad), it is as RickJay says: > > ‘In serious sports, the team after two teams tied for first is the third place team.’ Interesting; I would have thought that the team after the tied position would be ranked second, not third. After all, the two teams that are tied are equally ranked (Spot No. 1), so the next ranked team should be in Spot No. 2, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/8 "2009-02-16T13:20:05Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Interesting; I would have thought that the team after the tied position would be ranked second, not third. After all, the two teams that are tied are equally ranked (Spot No. 1), so the next ranked team should be in Spot No. 2, IMHO. If you’re in 3rd, that means there are two teams (players/whatever) that are better than you. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/9 "2009-02-16T13:38:29Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If you’re in 3rd, that means there are two teams (players/whatever) that are better than you. Think of it like a footrace. If two people passed the finish line before you, you’re third. If they passed at exactly the same time, you’re still third. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/10 "2009-02-16T13:45:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Think of it like a footrace. If two people passed the finish line before you, you’re third. If they passed at exactly the same time, you’re still third. But if your name is Arthur Aadvaark, chances are you’ll be listed first! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/11 "2009-02-16T15:12:22Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Interesting; I would have thought that the team after the tied position would be ranked second, not third. After all, the two teams that are tied are equally ranked (Spot No. 1), so the next ranked team should be in Spot No. 2, IMHO. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If you’re in 3rd, that means there are two teams (players/whatever) that are better than you. What Snarky\_Kong said. Imagine if 4 teams tie for 1st place. The next team has come 5th, not 2nd. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/12 "2009-02-16T19:01:04Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Think of it like a footrace. If two people passed the finish line before you, you’re third. If they passed at exactly the same time, you’re still third. You’re the third team… but you could easily argue you’re in the second place, since they shared the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/13 "2009-02-16T21:13:42Z")
In the footrace, you could say that you had the second-best _time_, but that’s not relevant in determining rank. You’re still the third-place finisher. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/14 "2009-02-16T21:36:41Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Interesting; I would have thought that the team after the tied position would be ranked second, not third. After all, the two teams that are tied are equally ranked (Spot No. 1), so the next ranked team should be in Spot No. 2, IMHO. Think of it in terms of prize money. If you get $100 for first, $75 for second, $50 for third, how should you payout a tie for first place? Make the first 2 split the $100 and give $75 to the next finisher, so he gets more than the 2 who finished before him? Makes more sense to split the first and second place prizes between the 2 who tied, and give the third place prize to the next finisher. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/15 "2009-02-17T00:41:17Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > In the footrace, you could say that you had the second-best _time_, but that’s not relevant in determining rank. You’re still the third-place finisher. There were two times better than yours, so you had the third-best time. Similar to what I said before, if 7 sprinters in the Olympic 100 metre final all dead-heat for 1st, the 8th guy does not finish 2nd - he’s 8th! ---
**Author:** ![DebateKing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DebateKing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DebateKing)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/16 "2018-02-26T17:39:36Z")
If team one and two tied, team 3 would still be placed at the third best, because it is behind the first 2 teams, therefor, it would be placed third place. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/17 "2018-02-26T18:22:11Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > You’re the third team… but you could easily argue you’re in the second place, since they shared the first place. You could argue that. You’d be wrong, but you could argue that. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/18 "2018-02-26T18:26:49Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > You could argue that. You’d be wrong, but you could argue that. Is he still arguing it nine years later, though? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/19 "2018-02-26T18:27:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > You could argue that. You’d be wrong, but you could argue that. Just note that this thread is 9 years old and recently bumped. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027/20 "2018-02-26T18:33:21Z")
There was another gold medal tie at the Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang[sup]\*[/sup]. Makes me wonder how many extra medals the organizers have laying around in case they’re needed, and what happens to the silver medals that weren’t awarded. - In case this thread gets bumped again in another eight years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-teams-tied-for-first-is-the-next-team-second-or-third/486027.md?page=2)