# Two term Presidents whose legacy might've been better as one-termers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 22, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621 "2017-06-22T18:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/41 "2017-06-25T09:44:04Z")
> [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](#): > > Not the OP, but I know Hoover created the President’s Emergency Committee for Unemployment and the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which gave money to banks, railroads, etc. for loans. He also supported the Glass-Steagall Act, I believe. He was also the first President in a decade to run a deficit (to help struggling Americans). In fact, it was arguably only FDR’s 1932 campaign claim that Hoover didn’t have a balanced checkbook that led to Hoover enacting a tax increase, which is the exact opposite of what the economy needed. In fact, didn’t FDR run (and win) focusing on how Hoover ran a deficit during the depression? And you forgot the expansion of the Federal Farm Board under Hoover. In fact [Rex Tugwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rexford_Tugwell) wrote a few times that everything FDR did had its basis in the Hoover administration. ---
**Author:** ![Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Arrogantly\_Ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogantly_Ignorant)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/42 "2017-06-25T10:24:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In fact, didn’t FDR run (and win) focusing on how Hoover ran a deficit during the depression? And you forgot the expansion of the Federal Farm Board under Hoover. In fact [Rex Tugwell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rexford_Tugwell) wrote a few times that everything FDR did had its basis in the Hoover administration. Yeah, one of FDR’s campaign points was Hoover’s deficit. Ironically, FDR increased the deficit by approximately 60% (if I’m remembering correctly) by the end of his first term. I’ll have to read some of those articles by Tugwell. The only reason I know what I do about Hoover is because I just finished a lecture series on him. The lecturer actually said Hoover could arguably have ended the Great Depression sooner than FDR if he had been given a second term. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/43 "2017-06-25T10:55:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No agency is just about the one guy at the top. If FEMA was unable to handle Katrina under Bush it wouldn’t be able to handle Katrina just nine months into a new Presidency where FEMA wouldn’t have been seen as a priority. Your first sentence is correct, and is in a fight with your second sentence. The fact is, by the time Clinton left office in 2001, FEMA had been reformed into a top-quality agency. Regardless of the shit-for-brains types Bush put in charge, a lot of those people were still there in November 2004. If Kerry gets elected then, there’s no further talent drain, and Kerry puts a competent person at the top to utilize their talents. It might not have been Kerry’s priority, but Kerry would have still filled the position, and FEMA would have been a priority for the person filling it. Also, the leadership problem during Katrina wasn’t just Heckuva Job Brownie, it was very much Chertoff at DHS as well. And since DHS is a Cabinet position, that changeover would have happened pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/44 "2017-06-25T11:30:43Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Lyndon Johnson - His 1963-1964 term was a massive success and if he had declined to run in 1964 he might have been considered one of the best ever. 1965-1969 still had their moments of success and triumph, but Vietnam’s escalation tends to overshadow his triumphs. The problem with this is that most of the positive accomplishments we associate with LBJ (Medicare, for one) were passed in 1965-66, in the wake of the Republican decimation in 1964. His legacy just wouldn’t have been that great if he’d not run for a term of his own in 1964. > [@](#): > > Richard Nixon - If he declines to run in '72, perhaps Watergate only comes out later, he’s not forced to resign, and his domestic and foreign policy record marks him as one of the greats. It’s not like he accomplished much in 1973 and 1974 anyway. This one’s even more true than you say. If Nixon doesn’t run for re-election, there _is no Watergate break-in_, nor any of the other 1972 ‘dirty tricks’ stuff. Maybe Hunt, Liddy, and the Cubans still break into the office of Ellsberg’s psychiatrist in September 1971, but in all likelihood nobody ever finds out who committed the burglary, since it wouldn’t have been the sort of crime a local police department would give a high priority to solving. > [@](#): > > Barack Obama - the successes of the first term without the foreign policy blunders and racial tension of the second. If Obama doesn’t have a second term and the GOP takes the White House in 2012, Obamacare gets killed before it takes effect. The Paris climate change accords don’t happen. On the whole, a one-term Obama’s legacy is a great deal smaller than that of the two-term Obama we had. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/45 "2017-06-25T12:51:55Z")
Of course, Nixon wasn’t a 2-term President anyway, more like a 1.4 term President. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/46 "2017-06-26T11:38:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Your first sentence is correct, and is in a fight with your second sentence. > > The fact is, by the time Clinton left office in 2001, FEMA had been reformed into a top-quality agency. Regardless of the shit-for-brains types Bush put in charge, a lot of those people were still there in November 2004. If Kerry gets elected then, there’s no further talent drain, and Kerry puts a competent person at the top to utilize their talents. It might not have been Kerry’s priority, but Kerry would have still filled the position, and FEMA would have been a priority for the person filling it. > > Also, the leadership problem during Katrina wasn’t just Heckuva Job Brownie, it was very much Chertoff at DHS as well. And since DHS is a Cabinet position, that changeover would have happened pretty quickly. FEMA still would have taken at least 72 hours to get there in force, and the state and local governments there would still have turned it into a fiasco by then. And it’s not as if Kerry had a crack political team to make him look good. Karl Rove\> Bob Shrum. And even Rove couldn’t polish that turd. As I said, the only saving grace for Kerry would have been that the media would have defended the new President by throwing Blanco and Nagin under the bus. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/47 "2017-06-26T11:59:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Your first sentence is correct, and is in a fight with your second sentence. > > The fact is, by the time Clinton left office in 2001, FEMA had been reformed into a top-quality agency. Regardless of the shit-for-brains types Bush put in charge, a lot of those people were still there in November 2004. If Kerry gets elected then, there’s no further talent drain, and Kerry puts a competent person at the top to utilize their talents. It might not have been Kerry’s priority, but Kerry would have still filled the position, and FEMA would have been a priority for the person filling it. > > Also, the leadership problem during Katrina wasn’t just Heckuva Job Brownie, it was very much Chertoff at DHS as well. And since DHS is a Cabinet position, that changeover would have happened pretty quickly. Very nice. FEMA was not just the only agency which fucked up. The problem was a plan which had not been updated in years, lack of delineation between the various types of relief agencies. The Army Corps of Engineers misrepresented how long the levees would last. The Louisiana National Guard was in Baghdad. None of that would have changed had Kerry been incharge. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/48 "2017-06-26T15:26:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > FEMA still would have taken at least 72 hours to get there in force Yeah, there’s no way they could have had people ready and waiting to be helicoptered in from an AFB on Oklahoma, say. > [@AK84](#): > > Very nice. FEMA was not just the only agency which fucked up. The problem was a plan which had not been updated in years, lack of delineation between the various types of relief agencies. The Army Corps of Engineers misrepresented how long the levees would last. The Louisiana National Guard was in Baghdad. None of that would have changed had Kerry been incharge. Yeah, there’s no way they could have come up with a new plan on the fly after Katrina crossed Florida and was aiming for the Gulf Coast. The levees would still have failed, yes. But the incredibly delayed Federal response to Katrina (including inattention to basic stuff like whether the levees had failed) made the disaster much worse than it was. Days upon days upon days when the Feds just plain didn’t show up, and a local sheriff wouldn’t even let people get out of New Orleans due to their skin color. This was all preventable just by having people in place who knew what they were doing and wanted to get it right. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/49 "2017-06-26T15:48:11Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Obama didn’t get anywhere near 50% of the country voting for him, he just got over 50% of the 60% of eligible voters who voted to vote for him. It’s not as inaccurate as the similar claim for Hillary in 2016 (who got less than 50% of votes cast), but it still is both technically inaccurate and paints a very false picture. A large portion of voters, roughly as many as voted for him, didn’t vote either candidate, and it’s not reasonable to ignore that when discussing how popular a president was. Name me a President who HAS won a majority of votes from among all possible voters. That’s a ridiculous standard. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/50 "2017-06-29T19:15:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Obama’s second turn didn’t see an increase in racial tensions. It saw an increase in awareness of racial tensions. I disagree, and the nation saw a President taking sides prematurely. He should have let the facts come out. But he shot first, aimed later, Obama was 0-3. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/51 "2017-06-30T22:46:18Z")
This discussion of FEMA neglects a crucial point. Our nation’s emergency management system is set up to always deal with the last disaster. In 2005 it was ready for another 9/11, not a natural disaster. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/52 "2017-07-01T12:37:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > This discussion of FEMA neglects a crucial point. Our nation’s emergency management system is set up to always deal with the last disaster. In 2005 it was ready for another 9/11, not a natural disaster. This is one of the most absurd things I have ever read. Apologist nonsense. FEMA was “set up” for another 9/11 because the U.S. never has floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and other natural disasters? FEMA failed because of terrible management, both within, and above in the Bush administration. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/53 "2017-07-17T13:34:02Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > This is one of the most absurd things I have ever read. Apologist nonsense. You’ll hate to know that many in Emergency Management academia disagree with you and it’s a known problem in the EM field. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/54 "2017-07-19T05:25:13Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Foreign policy blunders? You’re joking, right? It’s widely accepted that the Massacre at Benghazi was one of the three biggest American tragedies of the past century. It cost at least 3000 milli-Americans their lives(_), compared with only 2.4 kilo-Americans at Pearl Harbor and less than 3 kilo-Americans on 9/11. Congress certainly thought it more significant, spending more effort investigating Benghazi than it did Pearl Harbor and 9/11 combined. (_ 4000 milli-Americans if we include Antonin Scalia, his assassination part of the same crypto-jihadist plot.) Yes, the Tragedy of Benghazi occurred during the 2nd-term election campaign rather than the 2nd term itself, but even the despicable Killary-Hussein team wouldn’t have stooped that low except as part of some heinous re-election strategy. Americans will never forget the date September 11, 2012. (Schoolchildren don’t even learn December 7 anymore, and the date of 9/11 is remembered only because it happened coincidentally on Benghazi Day.) ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621/55 "2017-07-21T21:46:58Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I doubt it. > > Abraham Lincoln was the only leader at the time with the vision to temper the North’s desire for revenge while resolving to see that the union come together under a new order. Even had he survived, those first 4 years would have been tumultuous, but the Andrew Johnson presidency essentially ensured that white supremacy would influence politics of the former CSA for the next 100 years. So, say Lincoln loses re-election in 1865 to McClellan, who wanted to continue the war to restore the Union but was happy to let the South keep their slaves. Let’s say Booth gets antsy anyway, and shoots McClellan in the head. How does George H. Pendleton do as president? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/two-term-presidents-whose-legacy-mightve-been-better-as-one-termers/789621.md?page=2)