# Tyre Nichols death - discussion as the video comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910 "2023-01-27T16:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/301 "2023-02-04T19:23:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > If possible. I _don’t_ think police should be expected to risk their lives to keep the suspect alive to the same extent that they do to protect the public at large, other police, or themselves. > > A “suspect” is “the public at large”. The people the police endanger and kill are precisely the people they’re supposed to be protecting. Christian Glass was a young guy who called 911 for help when his car got stuck on a mountain road in Colorado. When he wouldn’t get out of his car because he was scared by the heavy police response with guns drawn, they shot him dead. The police news release, issued to justify the killing, identified him as a suspect. > **[Killing of Christian Glass](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Christian_Glass)** > > The killing of Christian Glass occurred on June 11, 2022, in Clear Creek County, Colorado, near the town of Silver Plume, at approximately 12:30 am. Glass, aged 22, was driving alone in a vehicle in the evening of June 10 when the vehicle went off the road. Unable to get it back on the road, he called 911 for help at approximately 11:20 pm, June 10. When the police arrived, Glass may have had some form of mental distress, and refused to get out of the vehicle. When a police officer, with weapo ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/302 "2023-02-04T21:33:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Could be better, and I guarantee it will end up in front of SCOTUS, where I suspect it will be struck down. Which parts? Red Flag laws? Probably not, with some exceptions with bad Red flag laws. " the bill prevents people convicted of domestic abuse from owning a gun to include dating partners rather than just spouses and former spouses". Naw, that’s solid as long as it is a _conviction._ expanding background checks? Solid. No suits have been filed yet. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/303 "2023-02-04T22:00:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Red Flag laws? Probably not, with some exceptions with bad Red flag laws. So, yes, Red Flag laws. > [@DrDeth](#): > > the bill prevents people convicted of domestic abuse from owning a gun to include dating partners rather than just spouses and former spouses". Naw, that’s solid as long as it is a _conviction._ Of course, that means that those with a restraining order have no protection. > [@DrDeth](#): > > expanding background checks? Solid. I honestly don’t see how they are expanded. You can still buy a gun from a private individual, and you already had to get a background check to buy from an FFL. > [@DrDeth](#): > > No suits have been filed yet. It’s been in place 6 months, it takes a while for things to work their way to SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/304 "2023-02-04T22:17:04Z")
Gift [link](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/04/us/memphis-police-scorpion.html?unlocked_article_code=TqFnnK6RRiHAXCkJpORGOFjNaH9Cndc88zSbEJYDyp0ChW1Mj74D2p4qtCk6mxSRH8Qt3DIKIaaouh4HTPfDLX4cUVSLI6exTcFZJ6eYnF3PwYIBIDCgrVRm6vZttPkQHxwtW0PKEtLIr8OCf_D805ydmDw-PS2gyNIvKtEtF7KSQ1sFrcctlhWtoKAe9fnM-GKcDvPFRUcsKqzkl6GJ97yr) to the article. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/305 "2023-02-04T22:47:22Z")
I was listening to NPR and one person related a story he himself experienced in Memphis. He and a friend were picking up a pizza and were pulled over by a SCORPION patrol. The police demanded that the two get out of the vehicle with their hands up or they would have their “heads blown off”. When the person asked what they had done wrong, with guns drawn on them, the cops laughed and said it was “just a joke” and let them go. The person reported a complaint but never heard anything about it and assumed it was just ignored. While he clearly got off easy, since he’s still alive, it’s extremely disturbing. And while SCORPION has been disbanded and is receiving scrutiny and investigations, how many other units just like it are free to continue to conduct state-funded terrorism? Because I don’t know what else to call that behavior. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/306 "2023-02-05T01:10:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Of course, that means that those with a restraining order have no protection. [Indeed.](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/02/politics/domestic-violence-guns-fifth-circuit/index.html) At least, so far, that’s just the Fifth Circuit, but I’m sure the Supremes will uphold it. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/307 "2023-02-05T04:31:08Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A plane crash is newsworthy. You don’t get to say “Hey, look at all the planes which _don’t_ crash”. And you _especially_ would look askance at an airline that says, “Plane crash? There was no plane crash. Move along, citizen, and let us do our job.” Make it a plane crashing every week or two and you’d be crazy not to. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/308 "2023-02-05T04:35:06Z")
This is but one chapter in the neverending saga of, “men’s right to own guns is more important than women’s right to be alive.” I wonder if they would be so dispassionate if they knew commiting an act of domestic violence significantly increased the likelihood of commiting an act of violence against a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/309 "2023-02-05T05:22:26Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The person reported a complaint but never heard anything about it and assumed it was just ignored. There should be a record of that. If it was done using email then there’s a trail to follow. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/310 "2023-02-05T16:12:50Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Make it a plane crashing every week or two and you’d be crazy not to. There is _more_ than a plane crash or two a week, and we don’t hear about it in the media. > **[Are smaller planes safe? Data shows the need for continuous improvement: Ask...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2022/10/16/smaller-planes-safety-ask-captain/10469533002/)** > > General aviation is a broad category that has to be broken down to answer whether small airplanes are safe, says Capt. John Cox. > [@](#): > > In 2021 there were 939 accidents with 268 fatalities, compared to 988 in 2019 pre-pandemic with 307 fatalities. And the reason that you don’t hear about it is the same reason you don’t hear about everytime a domestic abuser shoots their partner for getting a restraining order, it’s just _too_ common to be newsworthy. When a commercial airliner goes down, that’s newsworthy, as it doesn’t happen often, and the number of people affected is larger. That’s because the FAA requires extensive training and testing before you are allowed to endanger the lives of more than a handful of people. And the media also only talks about police abuse when it’s egregious and unjustifiable. For every time you hear about a George Floyd or Tyre Nichols, there are hundreds or thousands of cases of police misconduct. Whether they were just less documented, or they were more “minor”, they still leave people injured, or their lives damaged or destroyed. Media headlines are _always_ going to be biased towards the unusual, the commonplace just isn’t interesting. If someone just goes by the headlines, of course they will end up with a skewed view of the world. Often, reading past the headlines gives enough information to balance that view, but in televised news, that rarely happens. Headlines will only ever show you the tip of the iceberg, and that’s not where the danger lies. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/311 "2023-02-05T16:26:40Z")
Well put [k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender), and this was the point I was trying to allude to. When people say “The media is focused on assault rifles, even though handgun deaths are far more common” this conveys a number of misconceptions. Because handgun deaths \*do\* get reported in the media; local media is awash with such reports. They don’t tend to make the _national_ news because they are far too numerous and the news report would be essentially the same every day: “lots of handgun deaths across the country today”. But sure, if someone used a handgun to do a mass shooting, or assassinated someone famous or whatever (or accidentally shot someone on a film set), _then_ it would make the national news. Meanwhile the point [DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth) is making, about this kind of event being “anecdotal”…I think, in fairness to him, even he has dropped that point now, as it’s obviously very silly. Five officers beating someone to death unprovoked should very clearly be covered by the media, all the more so if there are still prominent politicians trying to cover and justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/312 "2023-02-05T17:37:09Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > And you _especially_ would look askance at an airline that says, “Plane crash? There was no plane crash. Move along, citizen, and let us do our job.” Our own airline investigated the plane crash, and found the passengers to be at fault." ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/313 "2023-02-05T20:11:00Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > And you _especially_ would look askance at an airline that says, “Plane crash? There was no plane crash. Move along, citizen, and let us do our job.” Yesbut- you’d be totally wrong by assuming, that due to all those reported plane crashes, airplane travel was unsafe. In fact millions of dudes make that unwise decision. Plane travel is safer that driving- per mile. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > This is but one chapter in the neverending saga of, “men’s right to own guns is more important than women’s right to be alive.” Woman can own guns too. Look, the level of evidence for a restraining order is much, much lower than a criminal conviction for spousal abuse. > **[What Proof Is Needed for a Restraining Order? | San Diego Domestic Violence...](https://www.gedulinlaw.com/blog/2017/february/what-proof-is-needed-for-a-restraining-order-/)** > > In order to file a restraining order in California, a certain amount of proof is needed before the judge will sign off on it. If a restraining order has already been filed against you, a criminal lawyer from our firm can begin working on your defense... _Temporary Restraining Orders Require Little to No Evidence_ _The court papers required for a temporary restraining order in California can be filed by any individual. In San Diego and many courts in California, temporary restraining order requests are handled the same day they are filed. A Judge in each courthouse is assigned to review every restraining order request submitted that day._ > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I wonder if they would be so dispassionate if they knew commiting an act of domestic violence significantly increased the likelihood of commiting an act of violence against a police officer. This is true, but getting a restraining order is not evidence of domestic violence. > [@Mijin](#): > > But sure, if someone used a handgun to do a mass shooting, or assassinated someone famous or whatever (or accidentally shot someone on a film set), _then_ it would make the national news. > > Meanwhile the point [DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth) is making, about this kind of event being “anecdotal”…I think, in fairness to him, even he has dropped that point now, as it’s obviously very silly. Five officers beating someone to death unprovoked should very clearly be covered by the media, all the more so if there are still prominent politicians trying to cover and justify it. The Monterrey Park shooting was with a handgun- which the media called an “assault hand gun”. If you think that was my point, you clearly didn’t get it. Of course the media needs to report such things. It is just that you can’t paint with a broad brush and make far reaching assumptions based upon what the media considers “newsworthy”. You’d never fly, you’d wonder why only attractive blonde females are abducted, etc, Those events _are_ “anecdotal”. Unless you _do_ think that only attractive blonde females are abducted? 😛 > **[Missing white woman syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome)** > > Missing white woman syndrome is a term used by social scientists and media commentators to denote media coverage, especially on television, of missing-person cases involving young, attractive, white, upper middle class women or girls compared to the relative lack of attention towards missing women who were not white, of lower social classes, or of missing men or boys. Although the term was coined in the context of missing-person cases, it is sometimes used of coverage of other v American news a... ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/314 "2023-02-05T20:40:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Monterrey Park shooting was with a handgun- which the media called an “assault hand gun Well they were reporting that the Sheriff used that term, so what exactly did you want the media to do with that? And who cares what we call it anyway? > [@](#): > > Of course the media needs to report such things. It is just that you can’t paint with a broad brush and make far reaching assumptions based upon what the media considers “newsworthy”. You’d never fly, you’d wonder why only attractive blonde females are abducted, etc, Those events are “anecdotal”. Who has made broad brush assertions? All I or others have said is that there should be accountability and not just brushing this under the carpet. It shouldn’t happen _once_, let alone how often this seems to happen in the US, and it’s thanks to dismissive attitudes as you have demonstrated in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/315 "2023-02-05T20:44:30Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Who has made broad brush assertions? The very poster I was replying to when I started this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/316 "2023-02-05T21:59:55Z")
Modern law enforcement hasn’t been around for that long, relatively speaking. We didn’t have anything resembling an organized police force as you’d recognize it until the middle of the 19th century in the US (in the city of Boston). And it has evolved a lot since then, sometimes as a slow evolution and other times in dramatic ways as new laws are passed. There is a web site I love, the Illustrated Guide to Law, which was created by a cartoonist who is also a lawyer (view his [LinkedIn page](https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanielburney) for his credentials) and it covers Constitutional law, criminal law, and criminal procedure. It also has a lot of history too. Here’s where he talks a bit about the history of policing in the US (this page is just the start): > **[Convict Yourself pg 34 | The Illustrated Guide to Law](https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=2479)** I think we’re long past due for another dramatic paradigm shift in policing in the US. This country has often lagged behind the rest of the world and we have examples to draw from if we want to improve things. Spotlighting the massive problems we have will hopefully pressure lawmakers into reform that is so badly needed, so that people are less likely to be the victims of the people who are supposed to be their protectors. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/317 "2023-02-05T23:39:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Monterrey Park shooting was with a handgun- which the media called an “assault hand gun”. Call it what you want, but the gun (with homemade silencer) was over 2 feet long and had a extended (30 round) magazine. This is what it looked like: [![](https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/firearm-monterey-park-shooting-2-ht-rc-230126_1674746897995_hpEmbed_3x2_992.jpg) ](https://s.abcnews.com/images/International/firearm-monterey-park-shooting-2-ht-rc-230126_1674746897995_hpEmbed_3x2_992.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/318 "2023-02-06T04:45:34Z")
OMG, I wouldn’t fire that thing with someone else’s hand. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/319 "2023-02-06T21:11:19Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > And who cares what we call it anyway? Don’t be abusing a gun’s civil rights! Besides, looking at the picture provided, how can you _not_ think that it is anything but a common target pistol and/or a deer hunting gun? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/320 "2023-02-06T23:23:21Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Call it what you want, but the gun (with homemade silencer) was over 2 feet long and had a extended (30 round) magazine. I am not a gun expert, but the first time I saw that I immediately said, “that looks like a MAC-10 submachine gun”. Not sure I was right, I fired up the Google machine and I am pretty sure my initial impression was correct. > **[The MAC-10 Submachine Gun Was a Terror in the Movies (Just Not in Real Life)](https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/mac-10-submachine-gun-was-terror-movies-just-not-real-life-58867)** > > It was all hype.  Look at the picture, it’s identical. Here is the Wikipedia article on the weapon. > **[MAC-10](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC-10)** > > The Military Armament Corporation Model 10, officially abbreviated as "M10" or "M-10", and more commonly known as the MAC-10, is a compact, blowback operated machine pistol/submachine gun that was developed by Gordon B. Ingram in 1964. It is chambered in either .45 ACP or 9mm. A two-stage suppressor by Sionics was designed for the MAC-10, which not only abates the noise created but makes it easier to control on full automatic (although it also makes the gun far less compact and concealable).\[ Mi... It is considered to either be a small submachine gun, or a “machine pistol” due to its small size. The magazine capacity is 32 rounds standard, which is what the gun in the incident was reported to be. Note that this weapon fell under the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban (which expired in 2004) which means… > [@DrDeth](#): > > The Monterrey Park shooting was with a handgun- which the media called an “assault hand gun”. Calling it a “hand gun” isn’t accurate, given it was designed for fully automatic fire. No more than a military assault rifle is a hunting rifle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910.md?page=17)