# Tyre Nichols death - discussion as the video comes out **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 27, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910 "2023-01-27T16:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/141 "2023-01-29T02:25:23Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “Ladies and gentlemen, we’d like to introduce our new police group with an entirely new name and attitude. Please help me welcome… The Death Squadron Baby Crushers!” That would be a great pro wrestling tag team name! ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/142 "2023-01-29T02:38:56Z")
What the hell is wrong with her? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/143 "2023-01-29T02:48:00Z")
She’s not alone. Look at what Dinesh D’Souza said: > ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/144 "2023-01-29T03:25:01Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > She’s not alone. Look at what Dinesh D’Souza said: How can somebody be so willfully ignorant? (I know, stupid question.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/145 "2023-01-29T03:50:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Anyway, I answered your question, but you never answered mine, what is your solution to this trend that, as you cited, is _not_ slowing down? I already mentioned it- better training and betting hiring practices. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Now yes, there are possible ways to reduce the problem- training, better hiring etc, but what is _your_ solution? But especially _dont set up Thug Police units, as Memphis did-_ > **[Memphis police shut down SCORPION unit whose officers are charged in death of...](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/memphis-police-shut-down-scorpion-unit-tyre-nichols-arrest-video/)** > > All five former officers involved in Tyre Nichols' death were part of the SCORPION unit, police said. _SCORPION, which stands for Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods, included more than two dozen officers assigned to SCORPION teams. They wore black hoodies and tactical black vests with “POLICE” emblazoned across the front and back, and drove dark colored Dodge Chargers marked with a SCORPION seal._ _The crime-suppression teams patrolled in groups and at times used justified low-level traffic stops as a way to find violent criminals, drugs or weapons, according to the department._ So, the Memphis police chief has a lot to answer for- a unit of thugs, wearing a special uniform, _whose duty it is to harass people._ > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Is beating a man to death part of their training and procedures? No, which is why they were quickly fired. > [@Chronos](#): > > For starters, we could hire better humans for cops. It can be done. Nearly every other profession manages to do it. How often do you hear about teachers killing our students, for instance? Teachers can’t even touch a student without getting in trouble. Part of a cops _job_ is to wrestle people to the ground, use a nitestick, and yes, even kill when necessary. Police officers have to use violence sometimes. Teachers do not. But yeah, better hiring can work. Federal Agents also have to do those violent things, but you rarely hear of them going psycho. First of all, the background check is extensive- I know I went thru it. Next, you have to have a college degree, which shows a certain level of academic ability and the ability to work with BS. But the Feds skim the cream off the top. And if you have ever worked with the ATF or DEA, you wonder about that “cream” part. (The FBI, Treasury and Secret Service really are the cream) _But voters want more cops._ So, the cities have to make do with hirees who are not the cream (oh sure, some of the top local policemen _are_ cream that didn’t want to move out of their city, so it is not all bad). Sometimes they have to scrape the bottom of the barrel- and note all four of those cops were fairly new to the Force. The Police unions, of course, fight tooth and nail against hiring new cops (less overtime). But that causes even more problems. See, you got a cop, a decent cop. So their dept is understaffed, and that cop works 60 hours that week. Plus, he/she has a side gig- almost always kosher in most forces. So that’s another 16 hours. 76 hours on line. Your judgement is shot to hell after only 50 hours in a week, how bad is it after 76? Or more? I will bet dollars to donuts those cops on that special thug unit had racked up a LOT of overtime. Thus their judgement was shot and their tempers were high already, likely pumped full of energy drinks. Listen to the video, they lost their temper over something relatively minor. They were no longer in control, they went psycho So, I would say no police officer can work a side job that puts them over 50 hours of work in a week, and after 60 hours of duty, cops have to go off duty, unless a major disaster. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > All 5 of those cops were part of their “SCORPION” Unit. SCORPION being an acronym or Street Crimes Operations to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods. Yes, A special Thug unit ordered to harass people. How could _that_ go wrong? 🙄 😱 > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But even then, don’t officers normally cruise in pairs? Where did the other three come from? See above. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/146 "2023-01-29T08:03:12Z")
“Now that we have shut down SCORPION, we need something else to take care of these violent streets. Maybe the Special Urban Battle-Zone Elite Reconciliation Officers. Goodbye SCORPION, hello SUB-ZERO!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/147 "2023-01-29T08:21:56Z")
Friendly Urban Citizen’s Kindhearted and Open-minded Fab Force. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/148 "2023-01-29T14:44:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I already mentioned it- better training and betting hiring practices. Okay, we are in agreement on that, though I think that’s just a _part_ of what needs to change. However, that’s easier said than done. _How_ do we get the 17k+ different police departments to implement “better training and hiring”. What does that even look like? Should there be, and can there be, federal guidelines that your local county or township police department has to follow? How would they be monitored and enforced. What do we do with the 800,000 law enforcement officers already working, do we rescreen and retrain all of them, while culling probably the majority who won’t make the cut or submit to change? Should local PD’s that refuse to comply by dissolved and federalized? What would these guidelines be, and who is going to come up with them? It’s easy to say, but much hard to _do_. And, I suspect, is not sufficient, as long as we are expecting police to do many different jobs that require many different specialties, while also rarely holding them accountable for their actions. Cases like these are the tip of the iceberg, many violations occur daily, it’s only examples where the actions were so egregious, and the evidence so compelling, that the DA will bring charges. If they hadn’t gone as far, and Tyre had gone home with “merely” severe injuries, this wouldn’t have ever made the news, and those who assaulted him would be out on the streets looking for another victim the next day. I assume you don’t think that this is the first time that they have done something like this, and I also hope you don’t think that these are the only ones who have. Upthread, it seemed you agreed that complaints should be taken more seriously. How would you go about separating the prosecution office from the law enforcement in such a way that cops will actually be prosecuted for violations, even ones that don’t result in death, and that they won’t work together to keep bad cops out of trouble? As far as qualified immunity goes, it is true that it has nothing to do (very little anyway, I’ll get to that) with whether a cop is criminally charged. However, if the prosecution won’t go after a bad cop, civil court is the only remedy a victim of police misconduct has. Now, you can’t claim that others don’t understand qualified immunity, because you don’t either. No one really does. There is no specific legislation that gives this protection, there is simply caselaw to be interpreted (though there are states that have legislation that addresses qualified immunity) . Courts are basically making it up as they go. So, you can only sue someone if there already is precedent of someone suing for exactly the same thing. It is very difficult to sue an officer for abusing their position. I don’t think that qualified immunity should be ended, I think it should be codified. It should have legislation that spells out exactly what protections it grants, and what rights people have to redress their grievances in civil court. I don’t know if anyone will be happy with the compromise that comes out, as that is what a good compromise looks like, but at least it would be clear where everyone stands. Qualified immunity is intended to protect officials from frivolous lawsuits, not to protect them from consequences of their actions. And as far as how criminal prosecution is affected by qualified immunity, there _have_ been times when evidence gatherer in a civil trial has led to criminal convictions, so qualified immunity and criminal prosecution are not _entirely_ unlinked. > [@DrDeth](#): > > _But voters want more cops._ They don’t want more cops, they want less crime. And they already most likely live in the lowest crime time and place in the history of mankind. But they turn on the news and see crime, and want to be protected from it. So, they vote to have people go out and beat up people in poor minority neighborhoods, as there is nothing that police can do to actually lower the crime in middle class suburbia. More cops just means, as you say, they have to dig deeper into the barrel. It means more people out on the street _looking_ for someone breaking a law they can punish. More cops doesn’t equal less crime. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/149 "2023-01-29T16:51:06Z")
But haven’t they been charged with **second** degree murder? > **[Five fired Memphis police officers charged with murder in death of Tyre...](https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/tyre-nichols-memphis-police-officers-charged-second-degree-murder/)** > > Video footage of the arrest has been shown to Tyre Nichols' family, but has not been made public. > [@](#): > > Five fired Memphis police officers were charged with second-degree murder in the death of Tyre Nichols, Tennessee authorities announced Thursday. Nichols died three days after a violent arrest by police earlier this month. [https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-second-degree-murder.html](https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-second-degree-murder.html) ETA: > Second-degree murder is not eligible for the death penalty, as first-degree murder is in Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/150 "2023-01-29T17:48:54Z")
[AP NEWS 29 Jan 2023](https://apnews.com/article/politics-memphis-crime-law-enforcement-1b7e8fa4ed7120a897086250d5d6da35) **Memphis police disband unit that fatally beat Tyre Nichols** - It’s not clear why the traffic stop happened in the first place. One officer can be heard on video saying that Nichols wouldn’t stop and then swerved as though he intended to hit the officer’s car. The officer says that when Nichols pulled up to a red light, the officers jumped out. - But Davis said the department cannot substantiate the reason for the stop. - “We don’t know what happened,” she said, adding, “All we know is the amount of force that was applied in this situation was over the top.” - After the first officer roughly pulls Nichols out of the car, Nichols can be heard saying, “I didn’t do anything,” as a group of officers begin to wrestle him to the ground. WHERE IS THE STREET CAMERA FOOTAGE PRIOR TO THE BEATING? It has to exist or we wouldn’t have the beating recorded in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/151 "2023-01-29T17:49:22Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > All 5 of those cops were part of their “SCORPION” Unit. SCORPION being an acronym or Street Crimes Operations to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhoods. I’m thinking more time was spent on thinking up that acronym than developing the training course for the unit, never mind actually training it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/152 "2023-01-29T18:00:42Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’m thinking more time was spent on thinking up that acronym than developing the training course for the unit, never mind actually training it. The police chief said they were short on supervisors. Unless this was a one-off event I would expect complaints against those involved. There should be a paper trail of unhappy citizens in the files of these officers. ---
**Author:** ![We-Came-To-Dance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We-Came-To-Dance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We-Came-To-Dance)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/153 "2023-01-29T18:13:37Z")
> WHERE IS THE STREET CAMERA FOOTAGE PRIOR TO THE BEATING? > > It has to exist or we wouldn’t have the beating recorded in the first place. I believe I heard the reason why there isn’t a recording of the traffic violation is because the officer was driving his private (new) vehicle which didn’t have a dashcam installed yet. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/154 "2023-01-29T18:20:00Z")
> [@We-Came-To-Dance](#): > > I believe I heard the reason why there isn’t a recording of the traffic violation is because the officer was driving his private (new) vehicle which didn’t have a dashcam installed yet. The footage from the camera mounted in the street didn’t just start working the second they dragged him out of the car. Where is the footage BEFORE that. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/155 "2023-01-29T18:42:27Z")
The mounted street camera was in a different location and had no visibility of the initial stop. After the traffic stop when they were being overly aggressive and tased Nichols, he ran a short distance away to within view of it. As far as they’ve told us, there wasn’t a camera that captured the stop. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/156 "2023-01-29T18:52:45Z")
Are you saying he was pulled over and fled, Is this why they had guns drawn on him? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/157 "2023-01-29T18:58:25Z")
No, they had guns drawn during the initial stop. Watch video #1 for the initial stop. What’s unclear is why they already were so aggressive while he was still in the car and complying with their requests. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/158 "2023-01-29T19:20:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > One officer can be heard on video saying that Nichols wouldn’t stop and then swerved as though he intended to hit the officer’s car. Just to be clear on the facts - the unit used UNMARKED police cars. Whatever happened here, it’s a very bad idea to use unmarked cars to conduct traffic stops anywhere, and especially in a high crime area. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/159 "2023-01-29T19:35:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > One officer can be heard on video saying that Nichols wouldn’t stop and then swerved as though he intended to hit the officer’s car The South Park Defense? [![](https://y.yarn.co/ecd96a76-d6bd-4232-925b-ba743eec3f3a_text.gif) ](https://y.yarn.co/ecd96a76-d6bd-4232-925b-ba743eec3f3a_text.gif) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910/160 "2023-01-29T19:37:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Okay, we are in agreement on that, though I think that’s just a _part_ of what needs to change. However, that’s easier said than done. True, that is just a part, But a good part, and not \*that \* hard. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > However, if the prosecution won’t go after a bad cop, civil court is the only remedy a victim of police misconduct has. Sure, and so sue the Dept, who has the deep pockets anyway. Sue a cop, and what can you get? They aint got no money. No way they can pay off $100 million or even 1 million. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > They don’t want more cops, they want less crime. And they already most likely live in the lowest crime time and place in the history of mankind. But they turn on the news and see crime, and want to be protected from it. I think we can agree that part of the problem is the media- that makes it seem like we are living in a crime riddle nation, whereas the opposite is true. Well, we do need some more cops, enough so the cops are not working too much OT. > [@Riemann](#): > > Just to be clear on the facts - the unit used UNMARKED police cars. > > Whatever happened here, it’s a very bad idea to use unmarked cars to conduct traffic stops anywhere, and especially in a high crime area. Yeah, and it is a bad idea to make up an “elite” unit of thugs whose job it is to harass the people in that neighborhood, with traffic stops, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tyre-nichols-death-discussion-as-the-video-comes-out/978910.md?page=9)