# U, K, D, and then natural flavouring? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933 "2011-09-20T12:53:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/1 "2011-09-20T12:53:36Z")
Hi, I bought some imitation bacon bits. There is a U on the label meaning kosher; no pork etc. But on the ingredients it says:Textured vegetable protein (soy flour, caramel color, fd&c red #3) partially hydrogenated soybean oil,salt and natural flavoring. I want to assume the _natural_ flavoring means some other kosher _natural_ flavorings and not the natural bacon flavoring. but it seems that they have named a lot of the other ingredients in there, so why all of a sudden \* natural flavorings\*. Are they throwing a curve ball?Also, isn’t some kind of law being broken here? shouldn’t it be stated what these flavorings are in case of allergies? The product is made by American spice company inc. I will try to get through by phone again sometime today thanks virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/2 "2011-09-20T13:40:10Z")
You may find some answers [here](http://www.fda.gov/food/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/guidancedocuments/foodlabelingnutrition/foodlabelingguide/ucm064880.htm) (FDA Guidelines FAQ) and in [this article](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/4676616/ns/today-food/t/food-qa-just-what-natural-flavoring/#.TniTBnNUEnU). The short version is “natural flavoring” simply means that the chemical components of a flavoring ingredient are derived from natural sources (herbs, spices, fruits, vegetables, beef, chicken, yeast, bark, roots, etc), however that does not mean they are unprocessed; in fact they may be significantly more processed than their “artificial” version. The reason companies are allowed to not list the components of their “flavorings” is because the all of the ingredients used are considered GRAS (“generally recognized as safe”) which allows them to maintain the secrecy of their formulas. If they use ingredients not on the GRAS list they must list them individually. As for allergy concerns, notice the “flavorings” are always at or near the end of the ingredients list, meaning they constitute only a tiny fraction of the total volume of ingredients, most likely just trace amounts. The FDA is simply willing to accept the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/3 "2011-09-20T13:41:42Z")
I’d guess it’s some sort of “liquid smoke” flavoring, a natural byproduct condensed and collected out of the wood used to form charcoal briquettes. ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/4 "2011-09-20T15:37:01Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > You may find some answers [here](http://www.fda.gov/food/guidancecomplianceregulatoryinformation/guidancedocuments/foodlabelingnutrition/foodlabelingguide/ucm064880.htm) (FDA Guidelines FAQ) and in [this article](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/4676616/ns/today-food/t/food-qa-just-what-natural-flavoring/#.TniTBnNUEnU). > > The short version is “natural flavoring” simply means that the chemical components of a flavoring ingredient are derived from natural sources (herbs, spices, fruits, vegetables, beef, chicken, yeast, bark, roots, etc), Does the etc. include pork? That is my question. Also if it contains beef and chicken flavor that would have to be listed because of vegetarian concerns and hopefully they are kosher also. thanks virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![Motorgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e36b37/32.png) [@Motorgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Motorgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/5 "2011-09-20T15:42:00Z")
> [@virtually\_yours](#): > > Does the etc. include pork? That is my question. Also if it contains beef and chicken flavor that would have to be listed because of vegetarian concerns and hopefully they are kosher also. > thanks > virtually yours The agency that certified the product as Kosher would not have done so if any prohibited ingredients were used. What Kosher symbol are you seeing on the label? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/6 "2011-09-20T15:42:29Z")
> [@virtually\_yours](#): > > Does the etc. include pork? That is my question. Also if it contains beef and chicken flavor that would have to be listed because of vegetarian concerns and hopefully they are kosher also. > thanks > virtually yours If it did, it wouldn’t have gotten the kosher OK, would it? I can’t imagine the certifying agencies would be slapdash about something like that. Most of bacon’s flavor doesn’t come from the pig, really. It comes from the cure. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/7 "2011-09-20T15:53:12Z")
As far as I can tell “pork” still qualifies as a natural ingredient, so yes. Kosher certification is done by a number of different organizations which are affiliated/contracted by different food manufacturers, and they each set their own standards, so what one may forbid another may allow. Because of this, how closely the certifying organization works with the manufacturers may vary. I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t know, and it’s likely only the manufacturers really know what’s in their products. ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/8 "2011-09-20T15:57:28Z")
> [@Motorgirl](#): > > The agency that certified the product as Kosher would not have done so if any prohibited ingredients were used. > > What Kosher symbol are you seeing on the label? _Hi, I bought some imitation bacon bits. There is a U on the label_… thanks virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/9 "2011-09-20T16:10:59Z")
Technically, he’s seeing an OU; the U is inside the O/circle. It’s the symbol of the [Orthodox Union](http://www.oukosher.org/), the largest kosher-certifying organization in America. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/10 "2011-09-20T16:23:28Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > As far as I can tell “pork” still qualifies as a natural ingredient, so yes. > > Kosher certification is done by a number of different organizations which are affiliated/contracted by different food manufacturers, and they each set their own standards, so what one may forbid another may allow. Because of this, how closely the certifying organization works with the manufacturers may vary. > > I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t know, and it’s likely only the manufacturers really know what’s in their products. But none of them are going to allow pork, right? I mean, there is NO definition of “kosher” that would include pork, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/11 "2011-09-20T16:39:37Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > Technically, he’s seeing an OU; the U is inside the O/circle. It’s the symbol of the [Orthodox Union](http://www.oukosher.org/), the largest kosher-certifying organization in America. I need to give them a call then, as the company that manufactures the thing is/are not answering the phone. virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/12 "2011-09-20T16:44:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > But none of them are going to allow pork, right? I mean, there is NO definition of “kosher” that would include pork, AFAIK. Of course not. BUT whether they are privy to the exact ingredients in “natural flavoring” and where they came from I cannot say. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/13 "2011-09-20T16:44:15Z")
Well, hey, if you actually get an answer, post here to let us know! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![virtually\_yours](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a587f6/32.png) [@virtually\_yours](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/virtually_yours)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/14 "2011-09-20T16:45:53Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > Technically, he’s seeing an OU; the U is inside the O/circle. It’s the symbol of the [Orthodox Union](http://www.oukosher.org/), the largest kosher-certifying organization in America. How does this grab ya’lls? [http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/consumer/alerts](http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/consumer/alerts) The Pizza Gourmet - Wood Grilled Pizza Crust Brands:The Pizza Gourmet Products:Wood Grilled Pizza Crust Company:The Pizza Gourmet - Providence, RI Issue: Unauthorized OU Wood Grilled Pizza Crust from The Pizza Gourmet bears an unauthorized OU. The company has removed the OU from the packaging, but some products with the unauthorized OU may still be in some stores. Brands:KC Masterpiece Products:Buffalo Marinade Company:HV Food Products - Oakland, CA Issue:Not certified This product bears an unauthorized OU symbol. It is not certified by the Orthodox Union and contains dairy. Corrective measures are being implemented. Brands:H.E.B. Products:Multi-Fit Flakes Original Multi-Fit Flakes with Berries Company:H.E.B. Grocery Company, LP - San Antonio TX Issue:Unauthorized OU Some Multi-Fit Flakes breakfast cereals display an unauthorized OU symbol. These products are not certified by the Orthodox Union and contain dairy. The product is being withdrawn from the marketplace. Hmmmm virtually yours ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/15 "2011-09-20T17:14:32Z")
I assume that if the kosher-certifying agency were not able to find out whether the natural flavorings were kosher, they would not have certified the food. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/16 "2011-09-20T17:36:25Z")
Trust me, the OU knows what’s in the natural flavoring, and there is no way, none, that there’s any pork products involved. But you can totally call them and ask. They won’t tell you what the natural flavorings are, but they’ll reassure you as to the pig-free nature of the product. Their Kosher Hotline is 212-613-8241. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/17 "2011-09-20T18:04:41Z")
**virtually yours** is correct in pointing out that the system of kosher-certification is not foolproof. There are indeed non-kosher manufacturers who use kosher symbols accidentally and/or deliberately, just like there are cheap watchmakers who use the “Movado” or “Rolex” names accidentally and/or deliberately. A certifying agency acquires a good reputation among the kosher-eating public by how well they find and publicize the bad apples (as **virtually yours** found), and by how well they are able to get that stuff off the market before people buy and eat them. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-d-and-then-natural-flavouring/596933/18 "2011-09-20T18:50:14Z")
[SA Article](http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2008-12/whats-difference-between-artificial-and-natural-flavors). Gist: you can create “strawberry flavoring” using a bacterial source, and it is “natural” because bacteria is a biological source. I don’t know where they get specific bacon flavoring. It is similar with Bacon Salt, where most (all?) flavors are vegetarian, and some (Hickory IIRC?) might even be vegan.