# U.K. General Election December 2019 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639 "2019-10-29T11:51:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/41 "2019-11-07T00:29:08Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Tom Watson quits as deputy Labour leader and won’t stand. Labour has gone completely off the rails. Corbyn’s purification is almost complete now. Too bad he won’t be leader and held to account for his disgusting narcissism and purity. He’s still alot better than Boris. Tom Watson repeatedly sniped and leaked information about party rifts in an effort to undermine Corbyn. I’m glad he’s gone. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/42 "2019-11-07T16:39:23Z")
[So the Lib Dems have decided not to field a candidate to oppose Soubry, inexplicably.](https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/lib-dems-not-stand-broxtowe-3511936?fbclid=IwAR0UOy6iAC8PKf7sGXotheUHJXxP7Q2wExbGZPKCFNaFTx1aZaiyDOr3lU8) No way I’ll be voting for her after she’s abandoned the constituency to become a TV personality, so that leaves Green party or spoiling my ballot… ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/43 "2019-11-07T16:44:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > [So the Lib Dems have decided not to field a candidate to oppose Soubry, inexplicably.](https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/lib-dems-not-stand-broxtowe-3511936?fbclid=IwAR0UOy6iAC8PKf7sGXotheUHJXxP7Q2wExbGZPKCFNaFTx1aZaiyDOr3lU8) No way I’ll be voting for her after she’s abandoned the constituency to become a TV personality, so that leaves Green party or spoiling my ballot… Then vote Green. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/44 "2019-11-07T16:48:50Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Then vote Green. Maybe. I tend not to like voting for extremists though. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/45 "2019-11-07T17:37:31Z")
Corbyn’s cult is in full Twitter troll mode. I could tweet about liking to kick puppies and that would get less hostile responses than saying something that might be construed as slightly critical of Saint Jeremy. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/46 "2019-11-07T21:58:55Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Corbyn’s cult is in full Twitter troll mode. I could tweet about liking to kick puppies and that would get less hostile responses than saying something that might be construed as slightly critical of Saint Jeremy. Where? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/47 "2019-11-08T18:25:37Z")
_CNN_: [Russia accused of UK infiltration](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/08/uk/uk-russia-inquiry-intelligence-security-committee-gbr-intl/index.html) > [@](#): > > UK lawmakers were told that Moscow infiltrated the UK establishment and governments turned a blind eye, sources tell CNN > … > Russia’s influence reaches deep into the British establishment and successive UK governments have turned a blind eye to it, lawmakers were warned, according to multiple sources familiar with testimony given to a parliamentary inquiry. > > Members of the cross-party Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC) were told that Moscow built up a network of friendly British diplomats, lawyers, parliamentarians and other influencers from across the political spectrum. One witness described the development as “potentially the most significant threat to the UK’s institutions and its ways of life,” according to testimony seen by CNN. > > The committee’s unpublished final report into Russian meddling in UK politics, titled simply “Russia,” is at the center of a storm in the UK, where parliament was dissolved on Wednesday ahead of a general election in December. The committee’s chairman, Dominic Grieve, has accused Prime Minister Boris Johnson of sitting on the report and claimed Downing Street had given “bogus” explanations for not publishing it. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/48 "2019-11-09T01:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > the UK establishment and governments turned a blind eye Wouldn’t be the first time this [happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Forbes-Sempill,_19th_Lord_Sempill#Espionage_1939-41). The establishment is beyond contempt. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/49 "2019-11-11T13:31:46Z")
Biggish news: [del]UKIP[/del] The Brexit Party will not be standing in any seats currently held by Tories. (Including those where the incumbent MP is standing down to be replaced by a new Tory candidate). Farage has basically bottled it. Last week he was making big demands about the guarantees he’d need about Brexit before he’d contemplate not running in every seat. Now he’s folded like the proverbial cheap suit. The polls were no encouragement to him - BXP support has been falling steadily. His gloss on this is that it helps ensure a pro-Brexit majority. It probably does! Incumbent Tories don’t have to worry about their vote splitting, leaving the campaign free to focus resources on the marginals it needs to win. More importantly, it allows for a cleaner message: “We are the only party of Brexit” - at least in those seats, and realistically (even though both Tories and BXP will be challenging Labour-held marginals) across the country as well. There is still some prospect that split votes in the seats the Tories need to win will be a barrier to them \*increasing \*the number of seats they hold, but this is basically good news for the Tories and bad news for Labour and the Lib Dems - especially if they fail to co-ordinate in any way and split each others votes. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/50 "2019-11-11T23:22:48Z")
Of course it also allows the Brexit party to concentrate all of their resources in the non-Tory seats which will make it harder for the Tories to make gains. They can’t pull all their resources from existing Tory seats but the Brexit party can. I think that maybe Farage is hoping for a Conservative minority government or just a slim majority which allows the hard Brexiters to retain their influence (which they’d lose in a Tory landslide). ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/51 "2019-11-12T01:32:38Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Of course it also allows the Brexit party to concentrate all of their resources in the non-Tory seats which will make it harder for the Tories to make gains. They can’t pull all their resources from existing Tory seats but the Brexit party can. > > I think that maybe Farage is hoping for a Conservative minority government or just a slim majority which allows the hard Brexiters to retain their influence (which they’d lose in a Tory landslide). This. The Tories retaining their current seats does not acheive Johnson’s objective, which is to secure a comfortable majority. This can only be done if the Tories gain seats. The hardening of their Brexit position will tend to repel moderate and centrist voters, so clearly their strategy is to appeal to committed Leavers and supporters of a hard or no-deal Brexit. They compete with the Brexit party for these voters. So this decision means the Brexit party will be competing with the Tories in precisely the seats that the Tories need to win. BXP is unlikely to win many - or perhaps any - of these seats, but by splitting the Leaver vote it may deny them to the Tories. This isn’t good news for the Tories. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/52 "2019-11-12T10:55:45Z")
The BXPs prospect of splitting the Leave vote depends on it being seen as the standard bearer for the purest and best of all Brexits. In making the decision to stand down vs Tory incumbents, Farage has thrown away this advantage. Tory Brexit is basically acceptable. If BXP isn’t standing for any different kind of Brexit than the Tories, why would you vote for them? Perhaps more pertinently, given that BXP candidates have taken a big hit to morale, why would you go out and pound the streets for them? The “Party” may be better able to concentrate financial resources, but where are they getting the footsoldiers? They’ve just taken half their candidates for fools. The level of personal investment the remaining half are feeling must be pretty low. Farage himself, who is the party’s biggest (only) asset on the national stage now looks weak and compromised. How can he answer the question of why people should vote BXP in constituency A but Tory in next door constituency B? His natural attack line of needing to hold the Tories to account is up in smoke. I don’t see how the BXP can continue to be a credible force in this election now that Farage has sold a) the pass and b) his own candidates out. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/53 "2019-11-12T11:11:42Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The “Party” may be better able to concentrate financial resources, but where are they getting the footsoldiers? They’ve just taken half their candidates for fools. The level of personal investment the remaining half are feeling must be pretty low. Not least if, as I have seen reported, their candidates had to put down £100 to be allowed to stand, which they presumably won’t get back. But then, the vast majority of their candidates were always going to be sacrificial lambs, if not paper candidates. But it’s an interesting question as to the relative influence of footsoldiers, traditional and internet media campaigning. Door-to-door canvassing seems to have gone more or less by the board these days, and I don’t expect to get more than the one free leaflet delivery. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/54 "2019-11-12T14:04:56Z")
“Russia, if you’re listening…” [CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/12/uk/labour-party-cyber-attack-gbr-intl/index.html): > [@](#): > > The UK’s main opposition party says it has experienced a “sophisticated and large-scale cyber attack” on its digital platforms. > > In a statement to CNN, a Labour Party spokesperson said the attack had “failed” because of the party’s “robust security systems.” ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/55 "2019-11-13T09:45:42Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > “Russia, if you’re listening…” > > [CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/12/uk/labour-party-cyber-attack-gbr-intl/index.html): The “sophisticated and large-scale” attack seems to have been a bog standard DDOS, so maybe Russians, maybe some bored kids. On the value of doorknocking and leafleting, you can’t deny the effectiveness of digital, but I’m led to believe that as far as getting out the vote goes, you can’t beat boots on the ground. And of course, there’s a psychological effect: it’s only worth voting BXP if you think they’ll make an impact, and the more leaflets, posters, stalls at the shopping centre etc. that you see locally, the more you might think you’re vote was worth. Whereas if all you’re seeing is the main parties, it makes BXP look like some sort of sideshow dreamed up by a goggle-eyed con-artist to fleece the naive. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/56 "2019-11-13T22:44:47Z")
Johnson is out of his depth when confronted by members of the public. > **['Why has it taken you so long?': Boris Johnson confronted in Doncaster over...](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/nov/13/why-has-it-taken-you-so-long-boris-johnson-confronted-in-doncaster-over-floods-video)** > > One resident questioned the prime minister's remarks about flood defences, while another called his announcement of support following the recent floods 'a pittance' ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/57 "2019-11-15T18:13:43Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > While I agree that LibDems could see a considerable upswing from remainers/former Labour voting centrists like myself, I think it’s going to be much more tactical than that. I’m a former Labour member and current voter, can’t stand Corbyn, have toyed with the LibDems but then I look at my constituency results from last time and can see the Tory’s slipping in if we split the vote between Labour and LibDems. So I may have to hold my nose and vote Labour. I don’t understand. The Tories and Labour are both now pro-Brexit parties. They just have different (and arguably equally shit) ideas about what Brexit means. So how does getting a Labour MP benefit you? ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/58 "2019-11-15T18:30:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t understand. The Tories and Labour are both now pro-Brexit parties. They just have different (and arguably equally shit) ideas about what Brexit means. Labour’s not really pro-Brexit. Depending on which way the wind’s blowing, their policy is a pro-Brexit, pro-“New Deal”, pro-second-referendum, secretly wanting Remain hybrid. Not content to sit on one fence, they’ve gathered together several to spread their ass cheeks over. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/59 "2019-11-15T18:45:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t understand. The Tories and Labour are both now pro-Brexit parties. They just have different (and arguably equally shit) ideas about what Brexit means. So how does getting a Labour MP benefit you? I’m not british but if both parties have equally shit brexit plans, then assuming the other parties aren’t realistic contenders, you may as well vote for the party that aligns closer to your interests, right? Also, I thought labour is currently advocating for a second referendum? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639/60 "2019-11-15T20:15:39Z")
That’s the thing, though: the Lib Dems _are_ realistic contenders. That is, they and the SNP (which doesn’t stand candidates in England and Wales) are the only significant party which is fully pro-Remain. > [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Labour’s not really pro-Brexit. Depending on which way the wind’s blowing, their policy is a pro-Brexit, pro-“New Deal”, pro-second-referendum, secretly wanting Remain hybrid. Not content to sit on one fence, they’ve gathered together several to spread their ass cheeks over. Okay, let me restate that: Jeremy Corbyn is pro-Brexit (or at least is officially pro-proceeding with Article 50) and nobody else in the party seems to have any balls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-general-election-december-2019/842639.md?page=4)