# U.K. gov't: Minister v. Secretary of State

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-govt-minister-v-secretary-of-state/364514>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [July 14, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-govt-minister-v-secretary-of-state/364514 "2006-07-14T19:01:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-govt-minister-v-secretary-of-state/364514/1 "2006-07-14T19:01:47Z")

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In popular culture, I have always heard that the British government is headed by “ministers” – prime minister, foreign minister, etc. And, indeed, in _Yes, Minister_, Hacker is addressed routinely as “minister.” However, I now see that very few, if any, of the cabinet ministers actually hold the title “minister” as a formal matter; they’re mostly secretaries of state.

So, is “minister” freely accepted as an informal substitute for “secretary of state”? Is it wrong to refer to the “foreign minister” or the “defense minister”? Does the public think of them as “ministers” or “secretaries” (as we do here in the United States)?

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**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\
**Post date:** [July 14, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-k-govt-minister-v-secretary-of-state/364514/2 "2006-07-14T19:21:25Z")

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> **[Secretary of state | United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_state#United_Kingdom)**
>
> In the Kingdom of England, before 1660, an officer entitled Secretary of State came into being near the end of the reign of Queen Elizabeth I (1558–1603), the usual title before that having been King's Clerk, King's Secretary, or Principal Secretary. From 1540 there were sometimes two such secretaries.
> From 1660 there were always two secretaries of state, between whom oversight of foreign affairs was divided on a geographical basis while domestic affairs were shared: the Northern Secretary and t...

One example of the way the titles change over time is this:

> [@](#):
>
> The Secretary of State for Defence is the senior United Kingdom government minister in charge of the Ministry of Defence.
> 
> The post was created on 1 April 1964 and replaced the previous office of Minister of Defence. The former cabinet positions of First Lord of the Admiralty, Secretary of State for War and Secretary of State for Air were incorporated into it and the offices of the Admiralty, War Office and the Air Ministry were abolished and their functions transferred to an expanded Ministry of Defence.

> **[Secretary of State for Defence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_for_Defence)**
>
> Charles III
>  
> William, Prince of Wales

From what I can recall offhand from media, and in particular BBC reporting style, the reference as an individual’s title will be to “Secretary of State for Defence, Des Browne”, but in interview he will be adressed as ‘Minister’, or in the third person as “the Defence Minister said that…”

And no, we don’t think of them as separate roles.