# U.N. Report: U.S. War on Terror Radicalizes Arabs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578 "2003-10-20T20:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![swami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@swami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swami)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/1 "2003-10-20T20:55:59Z")
[U.N. Report: U.S. War on Terror Radicalizes Arabs](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=574&e=3&u=/nm/20031020/wl_nm/mideast_arabs_report_dc_5) > [@](#): > > AMMAN, Jordan (Reuters) - The U.S.-led war on terror has radicalized more Arabs angry both with the West and their autocratic rulers who are bent on curbing their political rights, a U.N.-commissioned study released Monday showed. > > The Arab Human Development Report 2003 said Arab countries lagged other regions in dissemination of knowledge. Readership of books was relatively limited, education dictated submission rather than critical thought, the Arabic language was in crisis. > > The report, launched in Amman, blamed an absence of “effective and peaceful channels for dealing with injustices” for pushing radical political groups to seek change by violence. Even if we do not fall into the idea that Arab Radicalization = Islamic Radicalization, this still is a bad thing to have. Is there anyone out there who thinks this “war on terror” is a **military** war instead of a war for hearts and minds? Does this change your mind? Is there a solution? What about the rest of the SDMB, what can America do halt further radicalization of the Arab world? Is America doing the best they can? ---
**Author:** ![swami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@swami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swami)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/2 "2003-10-20T21:09:46Z")
[Terror war ‘holding back Arab societies’](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ft/20031020/bs_ft/1066565220097) > [@](#): > > By Gareth Smyth in Beirut > > A group of leading Arab intellectuals warned on Monday that the US-led “war on terror” was “giving ruling regimes in some Arab countries spurious justification for curbing freedom”. > > The Arab Human Development Report 2003, published by the United Nations (news - web sites) Development Programme, is the second annual report to examine the relationship between low economic growth, poor education levels and repressive governments. (snip) > > “Worldwide anti-terrorism policies have been largely military and security- oriented in nature,” it says. “[Consequent] restrictive procedures introduced by some advanced countries and adopted in several parts of the developing world, including the Arab region, have created a situation inimical to human development.” > > The introduction of ethnic profiling of Arabs and Muslims in the US has led, says the report, to a 30 per cent reduction between 1999 and 2002 in the number of Arab students in America. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/3 "2003-10-20T22:22:47Z")
It makes it much less work when you don’t have to bother distinguishing targets. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/4 "2003-10-20T22:57:48Z")
The war has radicalized Americans… one shouldn’t be amazed it has radicalized Arabs… I am waiting for the “it’s a military war” gang to show up. With the dumb “we have more bombs than there are terrorists logic”. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/5 "2003-10-20T23:58:15Z")
This is what bin Laden said that he wanted. We were only so happy to oblige. I guess it’s win-win for the messianic and apocalyptic among us on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/6 "2003-10-21T14:49:59Z")
We wouldn’t want to get the arabs mad at us. They may start trying to blow up our embassies, attack our ships in their ports, maybe even use terrorism to attack our financial and military centers in the US. The US must do whatever the arabs want and this will show them that terrorism does not work. Wait a minute, I just received on call on the clue phone, it was Captain Obvious. He tells me that apparently Arabs were mad at us before the war on terror. Apparently there was a big attack on the US about two years ago, you may have read about it in the newspapers, that convinced many in the US that fighting terrorists with our militaries in their cities was preferable to our civilians fighting terrorists in our cities. Also the US is attempting to set up a free and open society in an arab country so that dissenters will have non-violent ways to express their frustrations. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/7 "2003-10-21T15:10:59Z")
Radicalized the Arabs? Hell it has radicalized a great number of those of us in the US. What else can you believe when the Congress easily passes a resolution allowing the President to go to war at his sole option; passes all sorts of legislation increasing police power; and essentially laughs off a public debt increase of nearly $400 billion as being the price of the so-called War on Terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/8 "2003-10-21T16:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by puddleglum \* > \*\* > Wait a minute, I just received on call on the clue phone, it was Captain Obvious. He tells me that apparently Arabs were mad at us before the war on terror. \*\* Not all of them. Arguably a very small minority of them were engaged in any such activities as you cite. Your analysis is very shallow and worthless. Increasing the numbers of people who’re likely to be recruits for al Qaeda is a funny way of fighting a war. Usually, one doesn’t aid the recruitment efforts of one opponent. It seems telling of the quality of your analysis holds this US led recruitment effort to be either a good thing or not worth worrying about. Despite what _you_ may think of the US led invasion of Iraq, somehow, the Arab world has a different perception of the affair. Oddly enough, people act based on their own perceptions rather than yours. If the perceptions of others, (specifically those who’re subject to al Qaeda recruitment and sympathies), aren’t managed well in such a way as is to the benefit of the US and the war on terror, then there is an error. It strikes me as odd that this slightly deeper analysis has seemingly escaped you. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/9 "2003-10-21T17:19:07Z")
Despite what you may think of the US led invasion of Iraq, somehow, the **Western** world has a different perception of the affair. Oddly enough, people act based on their own perceptions rather than yours. If the perceptions of others, (specifically those who’re subject to al Qaeda **attacks and attrocities** ), aren’t managed well in such a way as is to the benefit of the **Arab World** and the war against the **West** , then there is an error. It strikes me as odd that this slightly deeper analysis has seemingly escaped you. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/10 "2003-10-21T17:52:54Z")
I’ve got a conclusion: The Arab war against the West has radicalized the USA. Without the attack upon NYC, there would have been no action against Afghanistan and GWB would not have been able to stampede the country into invading Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/11 "2003-10-21T18:17:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > I’ve got a conclusion: The Arab war against the West has radicalized the USA. Since when did al Qaeda speak for all Arabs? al Qaeda only represents al Qaeda. Unfortunately, the US’s war against al Qaeda has spilled over into the rest of the Arab community, and that’s why they’re getting radicalized against us. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/12 "2003-10-21T18:19:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saen \* > \*\*Despite what you may think of the US led invasion of Iraq, somehow, the **Western** world has a different perception of the affair. Oddly enough, people act based on their own perceptions rather than yours. If the perceptions of others, (specifically those who’re subject to al Qaeda **attacks and attrocities** ), aren’t managed well in such a way as is to the benefit of the **Arab World** and the war against the **West** , then there is an error. > It strikes me as odd that this slightly deeper analysis has seemingly escaped you. \*\* While I’m not sure who on this board you think it is who doesn’t think that the terror campaigns of al qaeda et al are mistakes, I agree. I think that bin Laden would’ve been better served by a huge PR campaign, PACs, made for tv movies, a cable show and maybe a summer blockbuster or two at the theaters. However, he’s locked into a messianic, apocalyptic vision of conflict resolution. Kind of like Boykin. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/13 "2003-10-21T18:21:12Z")
I think that bin Laden would’ve been better served when it comes to swaying US opinion by a huge PR campaign, PACs, made for tv movies, a cable show and maybe a summer blockbuster or two at the theaters opposed to the campaign of terror. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/14 "2003-10-21T18:22:46Z")
Yeah. Allah forbid anyone angers the Arabs. You know, maybe if they didn’t go around BLOWING SHIT UP, there wouldn’t be a need for a “War on Terror”. We tried doing nothing for years and that didn’t seem to work very well. Maybe actually bringing the fight to the terrorists will help. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/15 "2003-10-21T18:51:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\* > We tried doing nothing for years and that didn’t seem to work very well. > \*\* Do you have a cite for this that’d show which years in particular we didn’t do anything? ---
**Author:** ![swami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@swami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swami)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/16 "2003-10-21T18:54:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*Yeah. Allah forbid anyone angers the Arabs. You know, maybe if they didn’t go around BLOWING SHIT UP, there wouldn’t be a need for a “War on Terror”. \*\* Arabs blow “shit up”? I for one thought the kings of " BLOWING SHIT UP" was the American government. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/17 "2003-10-21T18:58:36Z")
the ones who blow things up are ALREADY radicalized. The concern is about those who’re not already radicalized. What is to be gained from the West encouraging terrorism against the West? ---
**Author:** ![swami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@swami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swami)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/18 "2003-10-21T19:00:48Z")
To get back to the OP: Is there a solution? What can America do halt further radicalization of the Arab world? Is America doing the best they can? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/19 "2003-10-21T19:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by swami \* > \*\*To get back to the OP: > > Is there a solution? What can America do halt further radicalization of the Arab world? Is America doing the best they can? \*\* The State Dept has some interesting ideas that they borrowed from our successful Cold War. [ **Changing Minds Winning Peace** a new strategic direction for u.s. public diplomacy in the arab & muslim world](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/24882.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578/20 "2003-10-21T23:18:35Z")
Yeah, a big part of it is in that report. The bigger is time. Make no mistake, this is and will be a military war, insults notwithstanding. The U.S. is responding to military action with military action. And a lot of non-violent Arabs don’t like it. Part of the reason is we haven’t done a good job talking about it, as the report covers. An additional factor, frankly, is nationalism – persons in mostly Arab countries are not specially immune from the nationalism that affects the rest of the world, and some of them correctly perceive that their government could be next. As regards that, tough shit. If a government supports terrorism, it might indeed be the next target. So what’s the role of time? A big, big part of the radicalization is because of a not-wholly-undeserved distrust of American motives. As Afghanistan takes its place as a nation, as elections happen in Iraq and the U.S. troops leave, as real democracies flouish these places and economies develop, feelings will ebb. In order to do that, of course, the U.S. has to follow through on _both_ its promises – to eliminate governments which support terror and to leave the populaces formerly subject to those governments in a better place than they were before we removed them. You can help. Call your congressman today and tell him that the conferrees should remove the loan provisions from the Iraq reconstruction package. Yeah, we know about the pressure to get other countries to forgive loans. Not a bad motive – but let’s us go first this one time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-report-u-s-war-on-terror-radicalizes-arabs/208578.md?page=2)