# U.N. Where Are You? Protect Indigenous Rights (but Violators are Media Darlings)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 16, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478 "2018-04-16T00:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/1 "2018-04-16T00:57:11Z")
[Indonesia’s Ancient Beliefs Win in Court, but Devotees Still Feel Ostracized](https://www.debatepolitics.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F04%2F14%2Fworld%2Fasia%2Findonesia-religious-freedom-.html) The U.N. talks a good game on human rights, especially when Israel is involved. And even Canada, UN human rights report shows that Canada is failing Indigenous peoples. But when Indonesia, other Muslim majority lands, Myanmar, etc., not so much. Indonesia has much wild, inaccessible terrain where the outside invasions of, in order, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam have not taken hold. These people, “known generally as aliran kepercayaan,” suffer discrimination of varying severity. But like the Yazidis in Iraq: ‘The genocide is ongoing’ when the discriminators are Muslims, not a peep from the U.N., or most of the world’s media. This is a rare and refreshing piece for the N.Y. Times. [![](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/04/15/world/14indonesia-beliefs-1sub2/merlin_136780005_82223d4d-0347-4508-a4d7-f06bad42f3d4-master768.jpg) ](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/04/15/world/14indonesia-beliefs-1sub2/merlin_136780005_82223d4d-0347-4508-a4d7-f06bad42f3d4-master768.jpg) Picture caption: A Baduy tribesman in Banten, Indonesia, in 2015. The Baduy follow one of Indonesia’s hundreds of traditional beliefs systems, known generally as aliran kepercayaan. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/2 "2018-04-16T04:40:32Z")
“In order…” In that order? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/3 "2018-04-16T04:41:58Z")
Seriously, the OP seems muddled to me. How powerful do you think the UN is, and how easy do you think they find it to intervene in a country, especially one as enormous as Indonesia? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/4 "2018-04-16T06:15:15Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > “In order…” In that order? Alphabetical? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/5 "2018-04-16T06:51:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Seriously, the OP seems muddled to me. How powerful do you think the UN is, and how easy do you think they find it to intervene in a country, especially one as enormous as Indonesia? I’m trying to figure out how Muslims are killing indigenous people in a region where Islam didn’t take hold. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/6 "2018-04-16T06:56:02Z")
UN? Do me a favour. The UN provides a fictitious and bogus ‘legal’ framework for validating the actions of five nations who won a war 70 years ago, and who desperately seek for that world order to not change. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/7 "2018-04-16T07:57:08Z")
“Not a peep”, you say? Do you realise how trivial it is to prove that’s [not](https://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/349924/un-human-rights-chief-notes-struggles-in-papua) [true](http://humanrightspapua.org/images/docs/INT_CERD_ALE_IDN_8093_E.pdf)? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/8 "2018-04-16T11:42:33Z")
I’m guessing this is something about how people are afraid to criticize actions taken by Muslims. It’s a _wild_ guess, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/9 "2018-04-16T12:04:18Z")
That was also my best guess at a takeaway from the confusing post. Apparently, “media darlings” refers to Muslim countries (as if the OP has been living under a rock since 2001.) I admit I have not heard much of the genocide referred to in the OP, but the Yazidis? Of course I’ve heard of that, it was all over the news. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/10 "2018-04-17T01:30:02Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > That was also my best guess at a takeaway from the confusing post. Apparently, “media darlings” refers to Muslim countries (as if the OP has been living under a rock since 2001.) I admit I have not heard much of the genocide referred to in the OP, but the Yazidis? Of course I’ve heard of that, it was all over the news. How often has the media justified the 9/11 attacks as “blowback”? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/11 "2018-04-17T01:38:16Z")
Never? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/12 "2018-04-17T01:47:14Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > How often has the media justified the 9/11 attacks as “blowback”? You seem angry at something. Why not save time and tell us what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/13 "2018-04-17T02:44:17Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The U.N. talks a good game on human rights, especially when Israel is involved. And even Canada, UN human rights report shows that Canada is failing Indigenous peoples. But when Indonesia, other Muslim majority lands, Myanmar, etc., not so much. […] > > […] when the discriminators are Muslims, not a peep from the U.N. […] Gee, it’s almost like the OP is unaware of the [hundreds of UN human rights reports criticizing violations of religious freedom in Muslim-majority nations, including Indonesia](http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/NewsSearch.aspx?MID=SR_Freedom_Religion). Here’s a recent one calling out Indonesia specifically, and there are many others addressing religious intolerance in other Muslim-majority countries. [22 May 2017: “A group of United Nations human rights experts today urged the Government of Indonesia to review and repeal its criminalization of blasphemy […]”](http://www.ohchr.org/en/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=21646&LangID=E) > [@JBGUSA](#): > > U.N. Where Are You? Yeah, I’m filing this one in trope category _“The Ignorance…Is Coming from Inside the OP”_. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/14 "2018-04-17T02:53:10Z")
UN only cares about israel, too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/15 "2018-04-17T03:42:08Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > How often has the media justified the 9/11 attacks as “blowback”? You should consider actually reading “the media”. You’d find it’s nothing like what you’re being told. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/16 "2018-04-17T15:43:51Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > [Indonesia’s Ancient Beliefs Win in Court, but Devotees Still Feel Ostracized](https://www.debatepolitics.com/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2018%2F04%2F14%2Fworld%2Fasia%2Findonesia-religious-freedom-.html) > > ‘The genocide is ongoing’ when the discriminators are Muslims, not a peep from the U.N., or most of the world’s media. This is a rare and refreshing piece for the N.Y. Times. I didn’t see any reference to ‘genocide’ in the article. I think Indonesia’s laws about monotheism are kind of silly (well, very silly), but let’s not exaggerate the scope of the problem. And also, did you get the part where the article said that the courts found in favour of the animists? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/17 "2018-04-17T17:13:18Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > How often has the media justified the 9/11 attacks as “blowback”? > [@Lemur866](#): > > Never? > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You should consider actually reading “the media”. You’d find it’s nothing like what you’re being told. It may not count as American mainstream media but Rev. Jeremiah Wright and [Ward Churchill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill) both made comments along the lines of “chickens coming home to roost” in reference to 9/11. Churchill was on Bill Maher’s show around the same time defending his viewpoint. I saw this sentiment echoed in a few [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) editorial and I’d guarantee it showed up elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/18 "2018-04-17T18:18:46Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > It may not count as American mainstream media but Rev. Jeremiah Wright and [Ward Churchill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill) both made comments along the lines of “chickens coming home to roost” in reference to 9/11. You’ve already answered your own objection. Jeremiah Wright and Ward Churchill do not count as the media by any standard other than “I want to be outraged at the media so I’m going to find something outrageous that I will blame on the media.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/19 "2018-04-17T18:44:55Z")
Also, it’s absurd to suggest that pointing out a retaliatory aspect of terrorist attacks is the same thing as “justifying” them. If I rear-end some guy’s car and he gets steamed about it and pulls a gun from the glove compartment and blows my head off, saying that he shot me because he was angry about the rear-ending is not in any way “justifying” his murderous actions. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478/20 "2018-04-24T03:26:11Z")
> [@Bruce Wayne](#): > > It may not count as American mainstream media but Rev. Jeremiah Wright and [Ward Churchill](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill) both made comments along the lines of “chickens coming home to roost” in reference to 9/11. Churchill was on Bill Maher’s show around the same time defending his viewpoint. I saw this sentiment echoed in a few [Salon.com](http://Salon.com) editorial and I’d guarantee it showed up elsewhere. Not far from the journalism of the New York Times though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-n-where-are-you-protect-indigenous-rights-but-violators-are-media-darlings/812478.md?page=2)