# U.S.A.F. Chaplains promote misogyny, gay bashing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203 "2017-05-09T14:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/21 "2017-05-09T18:53:42Z")
Aside from my crack about **manson1972** ’s comment – I’m still glowing over my wit on that one – I am not 100% sure what the UCMJ dictates in cases like this, where someone expresses contempt for superior officers and other service members but while the reservist is not activated, but I’m pretty sure there’s no criminal punishment for such things. Seems like the right measures are to recognize that this dude is toxic to the Air Force, he should never make major, and maybe end up detailed to providing religious counsel and help to the cleaning supplies in a dark closet, rather than having any sort of responsibilities or interaction with his fellow airman. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/22 "2017-05-09T18:55:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Should Muslim military chaplains be allowed to say that women should wear burqas? At some point there will be conflict. ‘Military chaplain’ has always struck me as an oxymoron. How do you serve both God and America, no matter what you believe about God? Unless you believe that God and America are always on the same page, of course, which the fundies always seem to believe whenever the Republicans are in control, but change their minds about it real fast when the Dems are running things. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/23 "2017-05-09T18:58:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Oh, go fuschia self. 😉 No rebuttal? Iris my case. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/24 "2017-05-09T19:13:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, we’re not forcing anyone to not follow their faith. > > But since 1973, we’re not forcing anyone to be a member of the armed forces either. > > If you choose to join the armed forces (including the reserves), you have to comply by the standards of the armed forces. If your religious beliefs are incompatible with military service, then you have to pick one of them and give up the other. His religious beliefs are not incompatible with military service. He just believes that women should not be ministers. There are no Roman Catholic Female priests, either. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/25 "2017-05-09T19:22:07Z")
If Captain Sonny Hernandez is a drilling Reservist, as he appears to be, what he says and does on the 28 days a month that he’s not drilling isn’t necessarily the business of the Air Force. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/26 "2017-05-09T20:29:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > His religious beliefs are not incompatible with military service. He just believes that women should not be ministers. And the Air Force believes women should be ministers. What do you think the word incompatible means? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/27 "2017-05-09T20:43:38Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What’s the debate? These guys are clearly douchebags who should be court-martialed. > > Also, it’s USAF. No periods in it (sorry, but that just annoys me) Whether or not to use periods in an abbreviation is merely a matter of style. Whether or not it is correct depends on which style guide you are using. The U.S. Air Force might have its own preference, but that preference applies only if you are writing for a publication controlled by the U.S.A.F.'s style guide. SDMB posters aren’t subject to a style guide, so both are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/28 "2017-05-09T20:54:09Z")
Hernandez also said that since General designate Goodwin’s service began before Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, she lied about not being gay in order to get into the Air Force, and therefore she is not an acceptable Commandant of Cadets. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/29 "2017-05-09T20:55:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And the Air Force believes women should be ministers. > > What do you think the word incompatible means? Yes, but they dont have any problems with RC priests- they dont insist the RC church have female Priests, now do they? You can buy alcohol and cigarettes on most bases- but there are faiths that think they should be avoided. Mormons dont drink coffee, but there is coffee everywhere on any military base. If a Mormon Chaplain says to his parishioners they should avoid coffee, is that “incompatible”? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/30 "2017-05-09T21:05:43Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > These are not racist and do not seem to promote gay bashing. > > Why should the Air Force monitor the religious beliefs of its chaplains, instead of just making sure they do their duties? What part of blaming bestiality on homosexuals is not gay bashing? The other posts cited are not nearly as innocuous as the titles implied. Their religious beliefs are not the issue, their public statements are. > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > But reserve ≠ active duty, so “The debate is that these are active duty members of the Air Force…” is not really the case with respect to Capt Hernandez. > > You picked magenta, by the way; I used a different color. I was going for fuschia shock. Again, the owner of the blog, who wrote the post calling a superior officer a liar, is an Active Duty USAF Lieutenant Colonel. Captain Hernandez is not, but he’s not really the issue here - he’s just your average loud-mouthed holier-than-thou Christian asshole. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/31 "2017-05-09T21:09:56Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > These are not racist and do not seem to promote gay bashing. > > Why should the Air Force monitor the religious beliefs of its chaplains, instead of just making sure they do their duties? For chaplains part of their duties would include providing guidance and comfort to service men and women that follow faiths other than their own. Gasp! They may even be required to counsel homosexuals. So, yeah, the Air Force should at least monitor how they express their religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/32 "2017-05-09T21:19:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, but they dont have any problems with RC priests- they dont insist the RC church have female Priests, now do they? I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. But you’re not making it. What does this have to do with Catholic doctrine? Neither of these chaplains are Catholics. So Catholic doctrine has no personal affect on them. They are Christians. And they are military officers. Their religion is telling them something should not be allowed while the military is telling them it should be allowed. So they are members of two groups which are telling them incompatible things. This also has nothing to do with coffee. The military does not require its members to drink coffee. So if a member of the Air Force chooses not to drink coffee, that is not incompatible with his military service. But suppose a member of the military service felt his religion forbade him to serve coffee. And he worked in a mess hall were he was required to serve what was on the menu and coffee was on the menu. Now his religious beliefs would be incompatible with his military service. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/33 "2017-05-09T21:26:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > ‘Military chaplain’ has always struck me as an oxymoron. How do you serve both God and America, no matter what you believe about God? This has long been a matter of debate. In very broad general terms, my impression is the use of following justifications: Esp. for Roman Catholics, Augustines doctrine of a “Just War”. So attacking an enemy for shit and giggles (or profit for industry) is not ok, defending the life of civilians when somebody invades your territory is acceptable. (How much that applies to the last conflicts, and how it applies when taking part in a larger Alliance like NATO or UN, or how to invade a country to stop a massacer against civilians like Ruanda, is obviously a matter for lot of debate. But theoretically you can use that logic as good defense, just as you can point out why this specific case doesn’t meet the requirements. The “pastoral” \* approach: We as Christians are opposed to war, but we recognize that war will happen, and when people involved in it need spiritual care, we will help in our position as pastors (mostly the position of the Lutheran / Protestant Church here). Obviously, there’s a difficult line to walk between “as christian opposed to war, I would need to try and convince every doubting soldier who comes to me to oppose the war, which would be sabotage of morale etc.” and “as part of the military/ agreeing that this specific war is a necessary smaller evil than doing nothing, I must convince every doubting soldier who comes to me to go back to the front” I think that the old M.A.S.H series shows both Father Mulcahey (who is Catholic, but helps all faiths as best as he can and knows) and Psychatrist Friedmann as caught between “real help for the soldiers would be to send them home” vs. “War must go on”, while still being very helpful and understanding. As long as pastors volunteer for this and are not ordered to, I assume they have found a way to reconcile the different aspects of their faith with the military. Though I don’t know how many reconsider and quit seeing real war up close, or judging that Military in general might be necessary, but that they can not support this specific War because of following reasons. - In my native language, literally Soul-care. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/34 "2017-05-09T21:37:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. But you’re not making it. > > What does this have to do with Catholic doctrine? Neither of these chaplains are Catholics. So Catholic doctrine has no personal affect on them. > > They are Christians. And they are military officers. Their religion is telling them something should not be allowed while the military is telling them it should be allowed. So they are members of two groups which are telling them incompatible things. > > This also has nothing to do with coffee. The military does not require its members to drink coffee. So if a member of the Air Force chooses not to drink coffee, that is not incompatible with his military service. > > But suppose a member of the military service felt his religion forbade him to serve coffee. And he worked in a mess hall were he was required to serve what was on the menu and coffee was on the menu. Now his religious beliefs would be incompatible with his military service. Catholics are Christians, dont you know? And other Christian churches do not have female ministers. In fact,\* in general,\* Rabbis cant be female either. The Military is not telling them their Church must have female Ministers, so their beliefs are not incompatible. And he is simply saying that. He is not "refusing to serve coffee’. He is just saying _his faith_ doesnt allow female ministers. This is hardly unique or unusual. Most Muslims dont allow it either. _I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. But you’re not making it._ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/35 "2017-05-09T23:38:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Catholics are Christians, dont you know? Not according to Captain Hernandez. He publicly stated that many of his fellow chaplains, who call themselves Christians, are not real Christians because they do not follow the same form of Christianity he does. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The Military is not telling them their Church must have female Ministers, so their beliefs are not incompatible. It was wrong the first time you wrote it. But now that you’ve repeated it twice… it’s still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/36 "2017-05-10T00:00:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In fact,\* in general,\* Rabbis cant be female either. Wuh? I’ll ask my rabbi next time I see **her**. Of the three major groups, only the Orthodox typically don’t ordain women. Even some orthodox groups within Israel will ordain [them](http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/rabbis-round-table/.premium-1.661807). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/37 "2017-05-10T00:05:00Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Catholics are Christians, dont you know? And other Christian churches do not have female ministers. In fact,\* in general,\* Rabbis cant be female either. This is totally incorrect. In general, Rabbis most certainly can be women. Ten percent of Jews are Orthodox. 90 percent of Jews are Reform or Conservative or unaffiliated. It is only the Orthodox that don’t ordain women. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/38 "2017-05-10T00:31:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They are Christians. And they are military officers. **Their religion is telling them something should not be allowed** while **the military is telling them it should be allowed**. So they are members of two groups which are telling them incompatible things. > > This also has nothing to do with coffee. The military does not require its members to drink coffee. So if a member of the Air Force chooses not to drink coffee, that is not incompatible with his military service. > > But suppose a member of the military service **felt his religion forbade him to serve coffee**. And he worked in a mess hall were **he was required to serve what was on the menu and coffee was on the menu.** Now his religious beliefs would be incompatible with his military service. Not analogous. Having religious beliefs that allow things you believe should be forbidden is not the same as being forced to do things you believe your religion forbids. The Air Force is not forcing him to be a female minister; they are just allowing something to exist in their organization that he believes shouldn’t. The military saying something should be allowed while one believes it’s not is analogous to saying coffee should be allowed to be served while one doesn’t believe it should - yet doesn’t force him to serve it. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/39 "2017-05-10T01:49:42Z")
Does not make sense. This chaplain, he is Christian right? So he supposedly follows the teaching and lessons of that Jesus guy, right? Said Jesus guy has a disciple that apparently is important enough that it is the first person he reveals himself to after returning from death. As well as some other things. Her name was Miriam of Magdala (Mary Magdalene) Oddly enough, She was not a man. Maybe i am thinking of the wrong Jesus guy? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203/40 "2017-05-10T04:19:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > But reserve ≠ active duty, so “The debate is that these are active duty members of the Air Force…” is not really the case with respect to Capt Hernandez. > > You picked magenta, by the way; I used a different color. I was going for fuschia shock. It’s more complicated than you think. Active or not, any Air Force Reserve member is on Title 10 status, which subjects them to the UCMJ. You might say that all Air Force members are subject to the same, but that actually isn’t true. Guard members are on Title 32 status unless the Federal government activates them, which leaves them subject to the code of military justice of their state. Those are notoriously lenient in comparison to the UCMJ. The point is that this guy can be charged under the UCMJ even under inactive status, and as such he should really know better than to say anything like this publicly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-a-f-chaplains-promote-misogyny-gay-bashing/786203.md?page=3)