# ''U.S. Abandons Microsoft Breakup Effort'' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084 "2001-09-06T18:46:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/1 "2001-09-06T18:46:26Z")
From this page… [http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010906/ts/microsoft\_justice\_dc\_3.html](http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010906/ts/microsoft_justice_dc_3.html) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration, in a shift from the Clinton administration’s strategy, said on Thursday it would not seek to break up Microsoft and would strive to find a remedy in the landmark antitrust case against the software giant ``as quickly as possible.’’ I am, of course, furious but in an “I guess I expected it” sort of way. First MSN takes over my ISP, now this. GAH! GAH again! Boy life is sure good with a shrub in the white house. Gas prices skyrocketing, economy plummeting, corporate behemoths roam the land taking us poor shmos if every last cent. Yep sure is good. Good thing we got rid of that amoral Clinton and his eight years of prosperity. (Note, I am not a democrat, nor a republican. I think ALL parties are equaly corrupt. But I would rather have our nations leader in the panties of an intern, than the back pocket of Big Business.) That is all. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/2 "2001-09-06T20:25:13Z")
But if they had broken up Microsoft, you would have had 2 or more monopolies causing the same problems, if not causing even more. Isn’t there still a possibility of a breakup ruling from the EU’s antitrust case? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/3 "2001-09-06T21:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Gas prices skyrocketing Actually, here in California, gas prices are about 50 cents less than they were two or three months ago. Your mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/4 "2001-09-06T21:39:25Z")
Gas is cheaper here in the midwest, too. And the economy was already tumbling when Bush was elected. Mr. Gore’s in the pockets of a few fatcat businessmen himself. What was your point? ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/5 "2001-09-06T22:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeep’s Phoenix \* > \*\*. . .2 or more monopolies. . . \*\* Can anyone say oxymoron? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/6 "2001-09-06T23:06:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stofsky \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Jeep’s Phoenix \* > > \*\*. . .2 or more monopolies. . . \*\* > > Can anyone say oxymoron? \*\* O.K., let’s have an example. Microsoft is broken into two companies–one making the OS, the other making applications. You still have one company dominating the OS market and another dominating the application market. ---
**Author:** ![Psi\_Cop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@Psi\_Cop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psi_Cop)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2001, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/7 "2001-09-06T23:14:58Z")
Who says that Microsoft can be broken up by an EU trial? Their headquarters are in the United States, so only US courts can order a breakup _and_ enforce it. Europe could certainly sieze all European Microsoft holdings and ban them from all member countries, but who would this really hurt more? Not to mention that US-Europe relations would take a definate downturn from the siezure of assets belonging to one of our major corporations. -Psi Cop ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/8 "2001-09-07T01:16:36Z")
Well, I’m quite happy with the news. I’m planning on buying a copy of SuSe Linux as soon as I can scrounge up some dough, so don’t think I’m some big Microsoft fan. I’m just someone who finds a way to fix my problems without crying to the government that some evil company is being unfair and to make them stop. Also, while I don’t personally much like Microsoft’s products, I’m quite grateful they exist whenever people ask me for help doing something on their computers. For example, a few years ago, I temped at a company where a large portion of the employees were women in their sixties or so. Generally not at all experienced with computers, aside from the really old VT-240 terminals we used. A VT-240 terminal is about as far from a GUI as you can get. Monochrome monitors, all connected to a mainframe, different keyboard layout, etc. While I was working there, the company upgraded to PCs running Windows 95. For about three days, rather than doing what I noramlly did, I ended up going around explaining to people who had never used any sort of GUI before how to do what they needed in Windows. After that, there were a couple days of helping with random problems (usually with the terminal emulation software, not Windows). Basically, in under a week, and with not very much instruction, 50 or so grandmothers figured out how to do what they needed to in Windows. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/9 "2001-09-07T01:34:07Z")
But isn’t there about nine versions of Linux already? And none of them are totally compatible with the other? This can cause a lot of headaches in the long run, even among the elite computer users. What is worse, none of them can run my modem. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/10 "2001-09-07T02:13:21Z")
You have to keep in mind that there was no assurance of a victory for the government if they DID go after a breakup. In fact, many anti-trust specialists said that it would have been very unlikely for the government to win a breakup order. If the government had gone after a breakup and LOST, it would have been a tremendous victory for Microsoft. I think this is more of a face-saving act by the DOJ and the 18 states, because they all supported the decision not to go after a breakup. (Also, who knows what kind of impact it might have on the economy and consumers? What if it caused more harm than good?) ---
**Author:** ![Speleophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@Speleophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speleophile)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/11 "2001-09-07T02:37:25Z")
into an OS company and an application company (and possibly a web company) was utter foolishness in the first place. It would have result in two or three companies at least one of which (the OS group) would still have a monopoly, and still been able to use it to crush competition. If you were going to break up the company, the way to do it would have been to produce three or more companies producing the same stuff. They’d all get the current code for the various OS’es, and would have to differenate the products to carve out market. Then you’d see real competition, when one company didn’t corner the market on the one piece of software every machine needs - ie and operating system. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/12 "2001-09-07T02:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > If you were going to break up the company, the way to do it would have been to produce three or more companies producing the same stuff. They’d all get the current code for the various OS’es, and would have to differenate the products to carve out market. I’m not sure the law would allow the government to force Microsoft to turn over its trade secrets to a newly created competitor. Also, someone would end up with the Microsoft name, which is probably worth a few billion dollars, and a serious leg up on the competition. > [@](#): > > Then you’d see real competition, when one company didn’t corner the market on the one piece of software every machine needs - ie and operating system. You mean every PC. Macs don’t need Windows. (Although I think Apple and Microsoft are somewhat related now) > [@](#): > > But isn’t there about nine versions of Linux already? And none of them are totally compatible with the other? This can cause a lot of headaches in the long run, even among the elite computer users. What is worse, none of them can run my modem. So Microsoft should be punished for Linux’s shortcomings? ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/13 "2001-09-07T03:21:57Z")
This news is irrelevant. The DoJ is not in sole command of this lawsuit, they are merely a secondary player since the lawsuit was initiated by the States Attorneys General. The current leader of the antitrust suit, Atty Gen Tom Miller of Iowa is fully aware that Microsoft has refused to obey every previous court order. I plan to write Mr. Miller and urge him to continue pursuing the breakup. ---
**Author:** ![Speleophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@Speleophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speleophile)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/14 "2001-09-07T03:22:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure the law would allow the government to force Microsoft to turn over its trade secrets to a newly created competitor. Also, someone would end up with the Microsoft name, which is probably worth a few billion dollars, and a serious leg up on the competition. Huh? You think when the government broke up AT&T, all the baby bells didn’t start out on an equal footing, at least technolgy-wise? An even better example would be the Standard Oil breakup, since I’ll concede that AT&T still exists in a somewhat different market than the BBs. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/15 "2001-09-07T03:45:18Z")
Those breakups were done regionally. For example, in Standard Oil’s case, each component could use the name Standard Oil only in its designated area. Thus, in Ohio, you could go to Standard Oil of Ohio, while the same company was called Sohio in other parts of the country. Likewise, Amoco, Exxon, Esso, and Mobil (I think that’s right) all used the Standard Oil name in their home areas. Eventually those companies dropped the Standard Oil name, one by one, but not for quite some time. If one had been allowed to use the name across the country, the others probably would have fallen by the wayside. In AT&T’s case, none of the companies involved were directly in competition with each other at first. I see no way to divide Microsoft along regional lines. Also, I don’t think the government can really force two companies to compete against each other if they don’t want to. It’s kind of difficult to mandate that a company remain in the OS business. Regulations on businesses generally forbid certain endevours, rather than mandate them, because people do try to get the law to make sense from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/16 "2001-09-07T12:26:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chas.E_ > The DoJ is not in sole command of this lawsuit, they are merely a secondary player since the lawsuit was initiated by the States Attorneys General. > The current leader of the antitrust suit, Atty Gen Tom Miller of Iowa is fully aware that Microsoft has refused to obey every previous court order. Miller and the rest of the Attorneys General support the DOJ position not to seek a breakup. I think the decision is a legally wise one. The Court of Appeals had set a pretty stringent standard for breaking up monopolies that aren’t created through merger (such as Microsoft). I think they realized they probably weren’t going to get a breakup even if they pursued it. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/17 "2001-09-07T13:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \* > \*\*Boy life is sure good with a shrub in the white house. Gas prices skyrocketing, \*\* Actually, gas is cheaper here in New England \*\* > [@](#): > > economy plummeting, \*\* IIRC, this started before the guy was sworn in, which leads me to believe it was a bunch of people pulling their money out of the stock market in fear of how Bush would affect the economy. In short, a self-fulfilling prophecy \*\* > [@](#): > > corporate behemoths roam the land taking us poor shmos if every last cent. \*\* You “poor shmos” keep giving the “corporate behemoths” your money every day. In effect, you’re saying “You deserve my money. Please, take it.” \*\* > [@](#): > > (Note, I am not a democrat, nor a republican. I think ALL parties are equaly corrupt. But I would rather have our nations leader in the panties of an intern, than the back pocket of Big Business.)\*\* Because all business is corrupt and is only out to steal money from you. After all, no entity could possibly amass that kind of wealth by just providing something that people want. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/18 "2001-09-07T13:54:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoff \* > **Miller and the rest of the Attorneys General support the DOJ position not to seek a breakup.** Cite? I haven’t seen anything from the AGs (or should that acronym be AsG?). There are still some hardliners in the states’ group. > [@](#): > > I think the decision is a legally wise one. The Court of Appeals had set a pretty stringent standard for breaking up monopolies that aren’t created through merger (such as Microsoft). I think they realized they probably weren’t going to get a breakup even if they pursued it. \*\* Mergers OR acquisitions. Much of the power of MS comes from their acquired properties. MS is a legit breakup target. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/19 "2001-09-07T14:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chas.E_ > Cite? I haven’t seen anything from the AGs (or should that acronym be AsG?). There are still some hardliners in the states’ group [Here’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52572-2001Sep6.html) where I read it. The article says: > [@](#): > > The decision by the Bush administration’s Justice Department had the backing of 17 states and the District of Columbia. And here’s some quotes by Miller and Connecticut’s AG: > [@](#): > > “We have found in the Microsoft case there is no perfect remedy,” said Miller, the Iowa attorney general. “The states know how to be strong. We also know how to be strategic, and we think this is the time to be strategic.” > > Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal said the decision was forced in part by the appeals court. > > “We may not agree with the Court of Appeals on breakup or tying,” Blumenthal said, “but it has set a standard that would mean protracted proceedings and delayed relief with a highly uncertain result.” As you can see, they made a strategic (and I believe wise) legal decision to pursue other remedies. The government still has a lot of options. Here’s yet another quote from the article: > [@](#): > > “The one thing that makes Microsoft unique among monopolization cases is that software itself is a divisible product,” said University of Iowa antitrust professor Herb Hovenkamp. “You can break up the company or break up the product. There are plenty of options remaining that could loosen Microsoft’s monopoly grip without breaking up the company.” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084/20 "2001-09-07T14:11:32Z")
I’ve some research on the PC industry and the internet, and one common theme that keeps coming up is that “the winner takes all.” Generally speaking, something like 80-90% market share goes to the winner, and everyone else fights over the scraps. Ebay is one example, Microsoft Excel is another. (By the way, I have no cite and these aren’t hard numbers.) If that’s the natural evolution of this industry, then someone else if not Microsoft would have this kind of dominance. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-abandons-microsoft-breakup-effort/80084.md?page=2)