# U.S. and Cuba -- has the reset button been pressed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498 "2014-12-17T15:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/61 "2014-12-18T01:28:18Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The embargo began in 1960, in the waning days of the Eisenhower administration. Thanks! Did JFK and RFK diss Castro? I recall some invitation to the White House, where he was treated as a Little Brown Brother rather than a Head of State. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/62 "2014-12-18T01:57:00Z")
Those of us on the right will probably fulminate loudly about Obama’s supposed “commie-lovin’” proclivities, but in private will admit that there really is no reason to keep the embargo going (it hasn’t exactly accomplished its goals) – and besides, we might make a buck selling them stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/63 "2014-12-18T06:39:17Z")
couple of things one, cool as long as the cuban government does not fuck this up like they did the last time two, the cubans are fucked They are going to be like lambs to the slaughter when the money boys start rolling in Declan ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/64 "2014-12-18T10:34:45Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Ted Cruz isn’t happy (he’s running, right)? > > [Ted Cruz: Normalization Of U.S./Cuban Relations ‘A Tragic Mistake’ [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/17/ted-cruz-normalization-of-u-s-cuban-relations-a-tragic-mistake-video/) > > Um… what? Which of our allies wants us to maintain the embargo? What ‘embargo’. Been a popular vacation destination for decades from the UK - friends honeymooned there 20 years ago and loved it. > [@](#): > > The EU is Cuba’s second most important trading partner (accounting for 20% of total Cuban trade). The EU is the second biggest source of Cuban imports (20%) and was the third most important destination for Cuban exports (21%). The EU is Cuba’s biggest external investor. Approximately one third of all tourists visiting the island every year come from the EU > **[Cuba–European Union relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba%E2%80%93European_Union_relations#Trade)** > > Cuba–European Union relations are the international relations between the Republic of Cuba and the common foreign policy and trade relations of the European Union (EU). Relations have been strained in recent years, due to Cuba's poor human rights record and the European Union's numerous accusations of Cuba's human rights abuses. > EU relations with Cuba was governed by the Common Position, as approved by the European Council of Ministers in 1996, which was updated every six months following regula... ---
**Author:** ![BOOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c4cdca/32.png) [@BOOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BOOM)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/65 "2014-12-18T10:38:09Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > two, the cubans are fucked > > They are going to be like lambs to the slaughter when the money boys start rolling in > Declan Lets hope the Cubans can inform the US healthcare system … > **[Cuba's Health Care System: a Model for the World](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cubas-health-care-system_b_5649968)** > > In praising Cuba, the World Health Organization stresses that it is possible for Third-world countries with limited resources to implement an efficient health care system and provide all segments of the population with social protection worthy of the... ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/66 "2014-12-18T13:01:07Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > couple of things > > one, cool as long as the cuban government does not fuck this up like they did the last time > > two, the cubans are fucked > > They are going to be like lambs to the slaughter when the money boys start rolling in > Declan I agree - came to say this same thing. Pretty much how the Mob wanted to exploit pre-Castro Cuba in the '50’s. In ten years (maybe less), there’ll be dozens of casinos. The coastline will be split between gated resorts like Sandals, and rich people havens like Palm Beach, with inland golf courses. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/67 "2014-12-18T14:53:59Z")
Yes, economic development is a terrible thing. Better leave those sanctions in place, so the Cuban people can prosper! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/68 "2014-12-18T15:03:24Z")
There are plenty of respectable American businesses who would welcome the opening of this market. If casinos spring up, they don’t have to be run by the mob. Let’s open things up and see how it goes, the embargo was a dismal failure. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/69 "2014-12-18T15:08:24Z")
So one of the benefits seen is the opening tourism by Americans in Cuba again. Will Cuban citizens have the freedom to travel to the US? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/70 "2014-12-18T15:14:22Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > So one of the benefits seen is the opening tourism by Americans in Cuba again. Will Cuban citizens have the freedom to travel to the US? Could they afford to? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/71 "2014-12-18T15:37:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Could they afford to? I’m sure many could with money sent from family members in the US. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/72 "2014-12-18T15:38:59Z")
Dear Fidel: Yeah, offically your dim brother is the nominal president, but we all know he doesn’t wipe his backside without asking you first. So, let’s deal directly. ``` You're a communist, right? A Leninist-Marxist? Well, it just so happens that at most elite American colleges, we have to read a lot of Marx and Lenin. Mind-numbingly boring stuuff, but what're you gonna do? ``` Anyway, Lenin told us in no uncertain terms that when industrialized nations trade with small nations, they invariably exploit those smaller nations and drive them deeper into abject poverrty. You read that part too? Cool. So, you know where I’m coming from- imperialism being the highest form of capitalism and all. So, why do you and your sympathizers evern WANT to trade with the imperialist USA? Don’t you know we’d only use you and drive your people to starvation? Nobody wants that. Multi-national corporations would destroy the socialist utopia you have created for your people. For YOUR own good, we must maintain the embargo. You’re much better off not trading with us. Lenin said so, and he would know. I knew you’d understand. ``` -Astorian ``` ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/73 "2014-12-18T16:33:36Z")
Somewhat surprisingly to me, the Washington Post [editorializes](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-obama-administration-extends-the-castro-regime-in-cuba-a-bailout-it-doesnt-deserve/2014/12/17/a25a15d4-860c-11e4-9534-f79a23c40e6c_story.html) that the administration’s action yesterday is “naïve” and an “undeserved bailout.” I guess I see the argument that regardless of how one feels about whether the embargo should have been imposed, what is the rationale for ending it now – nothing has changed about the regime or its human-rights policies, for instance. Certainly, though, the embargo wasn’t achieving any useful goals for us, so I don’t see any problem with it getting chipped away. I often hear the argument that American money will transform the island, but I guess I don’t really see why this would necessarily occur. Cuba has only been cut off from trade with the US, not the entire world. If trade and investment from other Western nations hasn’t altered the Cuban government or society over fifty years, it’s not clear to me why adding the US into the mix would make a material difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/74 "2014-12-18T16:48:09Z")
Here’s the TLDR version of the Washington Post editorial: Sure, sanctions didn’t work for the last 53 years… but success was JUST around the corner! I don’t know that American investment has been the one missing element to improving conditions in Cuba. But from many perspectives, the current policy simply makes no sense. First, the only reason the embargo exists to to try to force change on Cuba. It has failed, and the idea that we just need to let the embargo work a little while longer is nonsense. Second, the embargo makes no sense on principle. We don’t forbid Americans from going to see the sights in Pyongyang, the government of which is much, much worse than Cuba. What is the logic of telling Americans that they need to get U.S. government permission to sit on a beach in Cuba? How does embracing Communist-style travel limits on our citizens make us the land of the free and the home of the brave? Third, if you’re at all concerned about poverty in Cuba, then increasing trade with them is simply a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/75 "2014-12-18T17:39:57Z")
I’m glad Obama’s taken steps to end the embargo, sometimes momentum’s a bitch to go against ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/76 "2014-12-18T18:01:45Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > So, naturally, you opposed sanctions against South Africa. And you mock suporters of boycotting Israel, right? > > Cause after all, who are WE to claim the moral high ground? Separate issues. There’s a higher level of scrutiny for unilateral action. The point, though, was in support of **BobLibDem**. He said that we had relations with all sorts of disreputable countries. I just pointed out that the US is not an exception, but that we could also be considered a disreputable country. That doesn’t stop us, or Russia, or Vietnam, from joining the international community on certain issues. Hypocrisy is an important component of realpolitik! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/77 "2014-12-18T18:16:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I often hear the argument that American money will transform the island, but I guess I don’t really see why this would necessarily occur. Cuba has only been cut off from trade with the US, not the entire world. If trade and investment from other Western nations hasn’t altered the Cuban government or society over fifty years, it’s not clear to me why adding the US into the mix would make a material difference. Because we’re right next door, the largest economy in the Western Hemisphere, and if things open up there will be an enormous amount of travel both ways – cheaper for a Cuban to visit Florida than Britain or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/78 "2014-12-18T23:31:02Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The death of Castro is the reset button. Si. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/79 "2014-12-18T23:36:18Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The point, though, was in support of **BobLibDem**. He said that we had relations with all sorts of disreputable countries. I just pointed out that the US is not an exception, but that we could also be considered a disreputable country. In this matter, I have to agree. We must stop doing business with ourselves! Perhaps a boycott on our products until we do what we want. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/80 "2014-12-19T01:14:02Z")
So all you people saying that the death of Castro is the reset button: what’s your reasoning? Is it because that’s theonly way for the US to save face? Or do you think it’s really going to be a game changer when the former president dies? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498.md?page=5)