# U.S. and Cuba -- has the reset button been pressed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498 "2014-12-17T15:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/141 "2015-01-29T23:55:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We could always negotiate a new lease if relations are normalized. Frankly, I’m not surprised that what amounts to our occupation of (a small) part of the island is a sticking point. Well, it wasn’t a sticking point before the Revolution – but, that’s one of the reasons Cuba had a revolution, all its post-Spain and pre-Castro governments were American puppets. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/142 "2015-01-30T00:02:26Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Really. > > Nope. [Just Cuba](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act). Maybe they can say they were drunk at the time: let’s forget this idiot’s delight. ## From that page it’s kinda _diffuse_, isn’t it ? Almost as if they were just throwing stuff in there at the end. I particularly like ‘_Prohibits recognition of a transitional government in Cuba that includes Fidel or Raúl Castro_’. Suppose the full and free elections had endorsed either of the two old buggers ? They had name-recognition. And I see my own country… ‘\* included criminal sanctions for complying with certain provisions[clarification needed] of the Helms–Burton Act whilst in the UK\*’. Quite right too. Anyway, since ‘ **Reform** ’ always means Bad Things Will Happen; one may be sure that even if some or all Cubans don’t like the Freres Castro. they have enough sense to know that any exiles returning alongside gibbering economists and American ‘advisers’ will implement **Market Reforms** and _Austerity For All._ A week or so back the chap who invented the BRICS acronym for those countries declared Brazilian workers should make themselves more attractive to foreign investment, or else. Meaning, no doubt, harder work, lower wages and benefits, less job security and all the other things that make libertarians fondle themselves suggestively = _No More Free Rides for the Brazilian Underclass !_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/143 "2015-01-30T14:25:04Z")
Brazil already has among the highest levels of economic inequality in the world. So I’m not sure how the Brazilian underclass could make itself any cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/144 "2015-01-30T15:52:29Z")
Meanwhile the number of Cubans fleeing by boat has increased sharply. Speculation is that the possible normalizing of relations could end the Wet Foot, Dry Foot policy that favors Cubans in US immigration matters. Here in Cayman we have seen an approximate doubling of the usual number of refugee boats. They stop here on the way to Honduras and then attempt to go overland to the States. Unfortunately one of the vessels [capsized in Cayman waters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/04/us-cuba-cayman-idUSKBN0KD0KH20150104) and one of the Cubans drown. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/145 "2015-01-30T16:05:46Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > From that page it’s kinda _diffuse_, isn’t it ? Almost as if they were just throwing stuff in there at the end. > I particularly like ‘_Prohibits recognition of a transitional government in Cuba that includes Fidel or Raúl Castro_’. Suppose the full and free elections had endorsed either of the two old buggers ? They had name-recognition. It gets even sillier. > [@](#): > > Prohibits recognition of a Cuban government that has not provided compensation for U.S. certified claims against confiscated property, defined as non-residential property with an excess of $50,000 value in 1959. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/146 "2015-01-31T04:31:46Z")
Well, Cuba’s claim on Guantanamo is even older. It’s been US territory for 100 years, hasn’t it? If Americans should relinquish old claims, so should Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/147 "2015-01-31T08:55:59Z")
At last ! Someone speaking out against rent-seeking landlordism; and moving towards ownership based on Use rather than dusty old Title. Tenants expropriate your houses and land ! Take the power from _rentiers_ and use where you live as your own ! Never pay rent no more ! We can call it the **Anti-Ownership Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act of 2015 ( Adaher-Gaddafi** ). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/148 "2015-02-22T20:58:17Z")
I recall once in Miami I heard some Cuban-Americans confidently predict that not only will Cuba one day be a State of the Union, but there will be a highway bridge from Key West to Havana. (I think a rail tunnel like the Chunnel would make more sense, but that’s another discussion.) Nobody’s building that yet – but, [ferry service from Key West to Havana could be in the near future](http://www.wokv.com/news/news/national/cuba-ferry-keys-could-become-reality/nkGM9/). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/149 "2015-02-23T06:05:52Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > ## I particularly like ‘_Prohibits recognition of a transitional government in Cuba that includes Fidel or Raúl Castro_’. Suppose the full and free elections had endorsed either of the two old buggers ? They had name-recognition. And I see my own country… ‘\* included criminal sanctions for complying with certain provisions[clarification needed] of the Helms–Burton Act whilst in the UK\*’. Quite right too. > > Anyway, since ‘ **Reform** ’ always means Bad Things Will Happen; one may be sure that even if some or all Cubans don’t like the Freres Castro. they have enough sense to know that any exiles returning alongside gibbering economists and American ‘advisers’ will implement **Market Reforms** and _Austerity For All._ > A week or so back the chap who invented the BRICS acronym for those countries declared Brazilian workers should make themselves more attractive to foreign investment, or else. > > Meaning, no doubt, harder work, lower wages and benefits, less job security and all the other things that make libertarians fondle themselves suggestively = _No More Free Rides for the Brazilian Underclass !_ No problem, if one of the Castro brothers won a free election (and it’s quite probably they would) then we would just figure out a way to redefine the election as not really free. I agree with the rest of your post, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2015, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/150 "2015-02-23T06:07:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Brazil already has among the highest levels of economic inequality in the world. So I’m not sure how the Brazilian underclass could make itself any cheaper. While that’s true, it used to be a lot more unequal 15-20 years ago, so there’s definitely room for things to get worse again. (Brazil has made progress since then, while the US has…not). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/151 "2015-04-11T18:08:52Z")
[Obama is taking Cuba off the list of “terrorist” states.](http://www.thenation.com/article/203953/obama-take-cuba-list-terrorist-states) Also, both Obama and Raul Castro will be attending the 7th Summit of the Americas in Panama, the first time Cuba has been represented. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/152 "2015-04-11T20:59:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Obama is taking Cuba off the list of “terrorist” states.](http://www.thenation.com/article/203953/obama-take-cuba-list-terrorist-states) Also, both Obama and Raul Castro will be attending the 7th Summit of the Americas in Panama, the first time Cuba has been represented. Cuba = Terrorist? O’Reilly. I mean, Really? reuters: > [@](#): > > Cuba was added to the list of terrorism sponsors in 1982, when it was aiding Marxist insurgencies in Colombia and **elsewhere**. Yeah, that _elsewhere_ will always get you. The USA has a stellar reputation in dealings “south of the border y elsewhere”. The takeaway, of course, is, “We need lots of resorts and casinos!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/153 "2015-04-11T22:35:18Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > The takeaway, of course, is, “We need lots of resorts and casinos!” And sex tourism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/154 "2015-04-12T01:02:06Z")
[Obama and Raul have a sit-down.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/11/politics/panama-obama-castro-meeting/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/155 "2015-04-12T01:15:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Obama and Raul have a sit-down.](http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/11/politics/panama-obama-castro-meeting/) [And Pubbies is pissed.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-meeting-with-castro-infuriates-gop-presidential-candidates/2015/04/11/e95cf1d0-dfbd-11e4-a500-1c5bb1d8ff6a_story.html?tid=hpModule_ba0d4c2a-86a2-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/156 "2015-04-12T22:09:19Z")
You can say that after anything Obama does. Or doesn’t do; they’re pissed when he’s on vacation too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498/157 "2015-04-21T23:55:42Z")
[Meanwhile, on this side of the Straits of Florida:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/todays-gop-is-out-of-sync-with-cuban-americans/2015/04/20/8eec3334-e77c-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html) > [@](#): > > As The Post recently reported, “Twenty years ago, 70 percent of Cuban Americans called themselves Republicans. In the latest Florida International University Cuba Poll, that number was down to 53 percent.” In fact, Florida exit polls in 2012 showed that Obama won the Cuban American vote, thanks largely to a 26-point landslide among voters under 45 — an incredible feat considering that nearly 80 percent of Cuban Americans in Florida voted for George W. Bush eight years earlier. Like the rest of American voters, it turns out that younger Cuban Americans are more liberal and Democratic than their elders, and their views on relations with Cuba are no exception. > > Last June, months before Obama announced his plans, FIU’s poll showed that 52 percent of Cuban Americans living in Miami-Dade County opposed the embargo, including 62 percent of those 18 to 29 years old. In addition, 68 percent those surveyed last year favored restoring diplomatic relations with Cuba, fueled by an astounding 90 percent of young people. More recently, a nationwide poll by Bendixen & Amandi International found that a majority of Cuban Americans support Obama’s plan to normalize relations with Cuba, including 69 percent of 18-t0-29-year-olds; 60 percent of 30-to-49 year-olds, and even a 47 percent plurality of 50-to-64 year-olds. As for whether renewed ties will improve the lives of ordinary Cubans, the poll also found that 97 percent of the island’s residents believe that normalization will be good for Cuba. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-and-cuba-has-the-reset-button-been-pressed/707498.md?page=7)