# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/1 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")
So much for diplomatic immunity. I’m disturbed by this because the lady was arrested for basically a white collar crime. Falsifying paperwork. To arrest and strip search another country’s diplomat seems way out of line in this case. I can understand the outrage. Imagine if India pulled this crap on one of our diplomats. Countries send their diplomats with the expectation they’ll be treated with respect and courtesy. There are official procedures for expelling a diplomat that commits a crime. Was some fake visa papers really worth an international incident with another major power? WTF were we thinking? We have enough problems with Pakistan. So lets damage our relationship with India too? > **[India retaliates against US after diplomat’s ‘barbaric’ NYC arrest, alleged...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/12/18/india-retaliates-against-us-after-diplomats-barbaric-nyc-arrest-alleged-strip-search/)** > > India retaliated Tuesday for the arrest in Manhattan of its deputy consul, threatening to crackdown on U.S. envoys in its country and dismantling barricades at the U.S. embassy. “It is despic… > [@](#): > > Devyani Khobragade, India’s deputy consul general in New York, is accused of submitting false documents to obtain a work visa for her Manhattan housekeeper. Indian officials said she was arrested and handcuffed Thursday as she dropped off her daughter at school, and was kept in a cell with drug addicts before posting $250,000 bail. > > A senior Indian official confirmed reports that she also was strip-searched, which has been portrayed in India as the most offensive and troubling part of the arrest. The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case. > > India was ready to retaliate against American diplomats in India by threatening to downgrade privileges and demanding information about how much they pay their Indian household staff, according to the Press Trust of India news agency. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/2 "2013-12-17T20:08:00Z")
This is one of those things where I think there must be more to the story than what has been published. Countries almost never mess with diplomatic officials from other countries. To mess with a deputy consul like this suggests to me that there was more going on than some falsified paperwork. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/3 "2013-12-17T20:18:16Z")
The clip you posted doesn’t say she’s a diplomat or she has diplomatic immunity. Maybe she doesn’t. If she does, this seems like a total violation of immunity. But India might be threatening to retaliate against our diplomats even if she didn’t have immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/4 "2013-12-17T20:26:36Z")
I believe that strip-searches are standard when you are placed in jail. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/5 "2013-12-17T20:31:15Z")
It appears that Manhattan federal prosecutor Preet Bharara issued the order for Devyani Khobragade arrest. Bharara needs to apologise to Khobragade and to India. Bharara had NO authority to order the arrest and should have first checked with the U.S. State Dept. The police appear to be following their normal procedures. Maybe Bharara is too stupid to be a federal prosecutor. > **[Devyani Khobragade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devyani_Khobragade)** > > Devyani Khobragade is a central civil servant of Indian Foreign Service cadre. She was in the news after being charged with visa fraud when she was posted in the Indian Consul in New York City in the United States. She is currently serving as ambassador of India to Cambodia at Embassy of India, Phnom Penh. > Khobragade was born in Tarapur, Maharashtra, in a Buddhist family from Gadchiroli, Maharashtra. Khobragade's father, Uttam Khobragade, was an officer in the Indian Administrative Service. H... ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/6 "2013-12-17T20:34:18Z")
Devyani Khobragade is an Indian diplomat who is posted as Deputy Consul General in Consulate General of India in New York according to Wiki. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/7 "2013-12-17T20:36:43Z")
I can remember when the US was like this. Cops were more courteous and respectful when dealing with middle class or wealthy non-violent offenders. They didn’t arrest some housewife in the suburbs for parking tickets and strip search her. She was arrested, held and required to pay the tickets. Woman were respected and treated with dignity. It’s true the lower classes didn’t get that same treatment but that doesn’t justify what the cops are routinely doing now. I’m not sure whats happened in the US. But the average citizen is in for quite the surprise if they get arrested for anything. Stories like this 70 year old lady getting thrown to the ground are becoming all too common. Yes she was resisting arrest. But to body slam her like that? > **[Officer acted reasonably in throwing 70-year-old woman to pavement, Glynn...](https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2013/12/14/officer-acted-reasonably-throwing-70-year-old-woman-pavement-glynn/15805570007/)** > > BRUNSWICK | Glynn County police officer Kevin Jones acted reasonably Dec. 5 when he threw a 70-year-old woman to the pavement on St. Simons Island and has been returned to full duties, county Police … > [@](#): > > That reaction may look outsized in the United States, but the case touches on a string of issues that strike deeply in India, where the fear of public humiliation resonates strongly and heavy-handed treatment by the police is normally reserved for the poor. For an educated, middle-class woman to face public arrest and a strip search is almost unimaginable, except in the most brutal crimes. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/8 "2013-12-17T20:37:34Z")
I dug around, and it seems India considers her a diplomat but I saw at least one news story claiming the U.S. says she doesn’t have immunity. Not sure of that claim though, nor its veracity. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/9 "2013-12-17T20:46:10Z")
Also, the story reported here in NYC is that the reason the work papers were not in order is that the housekeeper was wildly underpaid, ie kept as a semi-slave. NYC is saying There’s no general immunity from laws as diplomat, only arrest in connection with your work. (Citing the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations) Keeping a houseslave would not apply. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/10 "2013-12-17T21:02:39Z")
NYC is opening a huge can of trouble. No general immunity from laws as a diplomat? Can you imagine the consequences of that if applied to US Diplomats around the world? We have thousands of people employed in diplomatic service. If a diplomat breaks a non-violent law then expel them from the country. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/11 "2013-12-17T21:12:01Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > NYC is saying There’s no general immunity from laws as diplomat, only arrest in connection with your work. (Citing the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations) Keeping a houseslave would not apply. If [Cecil is right,](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity) then NYC is wrong: > [@Cecil](#): > > Diplomatic immunity is another such exemption. It applies to diplomats in their host countries, ensuring that they can’t be arrested or criminally prosecuted by the host country for any violations of local law. He cites the case of one diplomat who was arrested for soliciting sex from someone he believed to be a 7th grader (presumably this had nothing to do with his work). He was arrested, released on diplomatic immunity, and permitted to leave the country. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/12 "2013-12-17T21:15:07Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > NYC is saying There’s no general immunity from laws as diplomat, only arrest in connection with your work. (Citing the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations) Keeping a houseslave would not apply. If NYC is saying that, it’s untrue. A diplomatic agent is entitled to complete personal inviolability. Once their identity is known to law enforcement, they cannot be handcuffed (except in extraordinary circumstances), arrested, or detained. Their property cannot be searched. They are completely immune from the criminal jurisdiction of courts; they simply cannot be prosecuted for any crime by the host country. However, this immunity does not belong to them: it belongs to their country of origin. That country can choose to waive the immunity and it vanishes. Unfortunately for Ms. Khobragade, she is not a diplomatic agent. She is a deputy consul general, and I suspect that’s what NYC is actually trying to say. The difference is in the intended function. The diplomatic agent – typically an ambassador and those in his stead – facilitate communication between the host and sending country. The consulate, on the other hand, is responsible for work of interest to the sending country: passport and visa issues, assistance to travelers, etc. Consular personnel, especially those assigned outside the capital city generally do not, by the terms of the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, have the same level of privileges that diplomats do. They do retain immunity for acts completed in their official capacities, but this is an affirmative defense that must be raised in court. In short: a deputy general consul is entitled to immunity for her official acts, but the police are permitted to arrest and detain her. Eight years ago, I wrote [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity) for the Mailbag that touched on the distinctions in play here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/13 "2013-12-17T21:18:33Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If [Cecil is right,](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity) then NYC is wrong: > > He cites the case of one diplomat who was arrested for soliciting sex from someone he believed to be a 7th grader (presumably this had nothing to do with his work). He was arrested, released on diplomatic immunity, and permitted to leave the country. First, there’s no “if.” Cecil is always right. But that’s not Cecil. It’s me. 🙂 And to make clear, the distinction there was a diplomat as opposed to a consular official. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/14 "2013-12-17T21:23:33Z")
I think that the claim is that Khobragade is a consular officer and entitled to [consular immunity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consular_immunity) rather than diplomatic immunity. Unlike diplomatic immunity, consular immunity limited to official functions. It’s not entirely clear, though because a few high ranking consular officers _are_ entitled to diplomatic immunity. I don’t know if that’s the case here, but one would imagine that the USAO would check with the State Department on that before they started throwing warrants around. ETA: Ninja’d by Bricker! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/15 "2013-12-17T21:28:42Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > NYC is saying There’s no general immunity from laws as diplomat, only arrest in connection with your work. (Citing the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations) Keeping a houseslave would not apply. **Bricker** is right (as far as I know) about the consular/diplomat issue. But my other observation is that “NYC” shouldn’t be saying anything. This is a federal prosecution, isn’t it? The United States is saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/16 "2013-12-17T21:29:11Z")
I guess it’s nice if India is now really concerned about women being abused or humiliated, but… > [@aceplace57](#): > > I can remember when the US was like this. Cops were more courteous and respectful when dealing with middle class or wealthy non-violent offenders. They didn’t arrest some housewife in the suburbs for parking tickets and strip search her. She was arrested, held and required to pay the tickets. Woman were respected and treated with dignity. It’s true the lower classes didn’t get that same treatment but that doesn’t justify what the cops are routinely doing now. How wude! In the midst of all this misplaced outrage, could you perhaps spare a thought for the housekeeper who was reportedly being treated like shit? That’s a little more serious than a parking ticket. > [@aceplace57](#): > > We have enough problems with Pakistan. So lets damage our relationship with India too? This is a _somewhat_ smaller issue than drone strikes and Pakistan’s relationship with terrorist groups. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/17 "2013-12-17T21:29:48Z")
Thanks for the clarifications. Yes I beleive they are saying that she was a consular official whose consular immunity doesn’t protect her in these circumstances, NOT that diplomatic immunity wouldn’t. Eta: I also didn’t mean to imply that the NYC government has made a statement. I meant “as reported here in NYC…” Basically, my original post stunk. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/18 "2013-12-17T21:35:35Z")
If you go all the way to the end of [this document](http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf), it shows the legal guidance from the State Department to law enforcement authorities on which foreign agents may or may not be arrested in the United States. On the face of it, it seems like the cops followed the guidance correctly in this case. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/19 "2013-12-17T22:19:35Z")
I didn’t know about consular immunity. That explains a lot. It’s unfortunate this lady got treated this way. But I guess it wasn’t any different than what Americans have to put up with these days. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/20 "2013-12-17T22:28:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s unfortunate this lady got treated this way. I hoped for a minute you were talking about the alleged victim, but no. Seriously, do you realize you’re saying ‘This woman is powerful and accused of a white-collar crime, and it makes me sad that she was treated like a regular criminal?’ The _lady_ is accused of something awful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=2)