# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/201 "2013-12-18T22:38:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I see nothing wrong with showing respect for a country and its appointed representatives. The consulate officer is being held accountable for her actions. She has been charged and is facing years in prison. I personally think the State Dept will intervene but even then she’s expelled and her career as a consulate officer is over. She will pay a penalty for her actions. According to [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/18/us-usa-india-idUSBRE9BH0DD20131218), she’s been reassigned to the UN Mission in order to attempt to assert diplomatic immunity retroactively (no idea if that’s really how it works). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/202 "2013-12-18T22:44:03Z")
It could be a face saving gesture so the State Dept can say she has immunity. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is involved now. I don’t know how much pressure is being applied. I’d imagine the politicians are already in CYA and making phone calls. It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out in the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/203 "2013-12-18T22:45:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I see nothing wrong with showing respect for a country and its appointed representatives. You know, it’s not as if a SWAT team burst through her door. She was arrested in a fairly standard manner (the marshalls waited for her someplace they knew she would be), and treated like anyone who gets arrested instead of having security procedures waived and then assigned a separate cell for her own comfort. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/204 "2013-12-18T23:00:54Z")
That’s true. She probably was treated the same as anyone else. I was focusing more on the reaction in India. This story is probably headline news over there. Lets see how it plays out in the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/205 "2013-12-18T23:22:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Why give her special treatment? Well the special treatment is showing respect for her \*position \*as a consulate officer and representative from India. Respect is very important. Without it you get the mess we’re in now. This incident now has to be handled by the State Dept and India’s government. Meanwhile our legal system takes its own path in prosecuting the case. The implication of what you write is that if you’re not in a position of power, you’re not due respect. Is that what you intend? I find this idea repellent to my core. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/206 "2013-12-18T23:28:31Z")
No matter what happens, a strong message has been delivered to all consulate workers. I imagine there’s quite a scramble to either pay their nannies U.S. minimum wage or fire them and do without. That was probably the point Justice and State is making. They wanted to get these people’s attention. Make it clear prosecutions would be pursued. Hopefully servants working conditions will improve while they are employed in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/207 "2013-12-18T23:38:09Z")
Everyone deserves respect. It costs nothing to use polite language and courtesy. I’m sure the Marshall’s did that in this case. But how do you politely instruct someone to strip and submit to a cavity search? That’s going to be unpleasant no matter how it’s worded. I’d hope they were courteous and professional as possible. My earlier post was referring to respect for an office and what it represents. I’m no fan of our current President. But I would be very polite if I ever met him. I’d shake his hand. I’m showing respect for the office. The same is true for arresting a consulate representative. The arrest should have been coordinated through the Indian embassy. Get their lawyers involved. You’re showing respect to the government she represents by doing that. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The implication of what you write is that if you’re not in a position of power, you’re not due respect. Is that what you intend? I find this idea repellent to my core. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/208 "2013-12-18T23:57:46Z")
The transfer to the UN probably has the effect of placing her continued presence in US territory in a different category – UN status allows for people the US would normally not want around (e.g. Iranian, North Korean officials) to move unhindered. I would tend to go along with **bldysabba** in the part about wondering what else may be going on in this. Moral Panic about worker exploitation, perhaps? After all, we have not heard the maid’s whole story (though a court in India apparently IS requesting that she be returned there). Maybe combined with an ill-thought-out politically-driven response to pressure from NYC sectors who resent the Immune Class (both UN and regular diplomatic/consular staffs in NY and DC have a public image of abusing their immunity to flout common laws having nothing to do with their official status; as I mentioned earlier, many residents are rubbed the wrong way by this). They really need to do a review of how this was handled. It seems there was no perp walk as such, but it also seems like at least in the NY District even if it’s a nonviolent white-collar offense, after you are charged then yes you WILL be handcuffed and, yes, if not immediately bailed out then put in common lock-up with the vulgar criminals and for that purpose strip searched (per a SCOTUS decision last year). Nevermind if you merely shorted your tax witholdings or an employee’s pay. The American public generally \*wants \*to see the white collars treated like common criminals. Having gone through the consulate’s legal representatives as \*\*aceplace57 \*\*suggests may have avoided that scenario since they would have been at the ready to make the necessary motions and if necessary immediately post bond. Meanwhile, **truthSeeker2** , you persist in sounding like you are advocating retaliation for retaliation’s own sake. In Other News… apparently there is another factor here, in that what I read from India sources is that there has been outcry from various sectors that there was not a strong enough initial reaction to the incident by the Indian federal authorities and they are claiming that this was so because Khobragade is a Dalit; so _they_ may now be the ones who feel politically compelled to take a harder line to appease domestic indignation. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/209 "2013-12-19T00:22:04Z")
A very interesting admission. 😉 I had wondered how well consulate employees are paid. They get the trappings of office. A house and maybe a household budget for food and official entertaining. The actual paycheck may not be that great. If Khobragade is a Dalit then she probably has little personal wealth. Which means she should have left the nanny behind in India. > [@](#): > > One Indian government minister, Shashi Tharoor, has argued that it is not reasonable to expect diplomats from developing countries to pay the U.S. minimum wage to domestic staff because the envoys themselves earn less than that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/210 "2013-12-19T00:30:16Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > You’re not bothering to understand any of my arguments. I am not claiming an exception to the law. I’m claiming that the sense of moral outrage in this thread that this poor woman was being treated as a slave and cruelly exploited is ridiculous and misplaced. Oddly enough, I’m not one of the ones describing the arrangement as “slavery”. Exploitation, yes, but not to that particular extreme. Employers who stiff their employees _are_ regarded as scum in the US, and that’s where my “moral outrage” is coming from. Failure to pay your employees for work performed and services rendered is theft in this country and I am contemptuous of thieves regardless of social class or national origin. > [@](#): > > The poor woman in question was much better off than she would have been if she hadn’t been thus ‘cruelly exploited’. And if she had been paid NYC minimum wage she would have been better off still. > [@](#): > > You forget that she would never have been in NYC in the first place without the consul officer bringing her there, under an agreement that made her better off by far than continuing to stay in India. Why is that an excuse for allowing US law to be broken in the US? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/211 "2013-12-19T00:35:41Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > In fact, it recently DID provide a visa to the partner of a US official posted to India, even though they couldn’t be legally married in the US and thus did not meet the Indian requirement for a spouse visa. Actually, in the US same-sex marriage IS legal… in some states. I realize this can be confusing for outsiders but marriage laws can differ depending on where you live. It is legal in California, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia (Washington DC), Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. People from outside those states can travel to those states for the purpose of getting married. So it’s possible they did, in fact, meet the requirement of being legally married. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/212 "2013-12-19T02:26:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > she’s expelled and her career as a consulate officer is over. She will pay a penalty for her actions. Sorry, but that sounds about right to me. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/213 "2013-12-19T03:02:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s not an exact parallel to slavery. It is a very, very close parallel to indentured servitude, with the main difference being that indentured servitude was legal and this isn’t. I don’t think of it as a close parallel to indentured servitude either. We do not have all the facts of the case, but as far as I can tell, the woman was simply engaged to carry out her duties as she would have in India, getting room and board and a higher salary than she would have in India. If she was unhappy with the arrangement, I have not read anywhere that she was prevented from returning to India. Why didn’t she? She simply went missing, presumably(although I’d be happy to change my mind if more facts emerge) to take advantage of the fact that she now had a valid visa and work permit she would never otherwise have obtained. Her problems also not a shortage of funds. One months pay would buy the ticket back. She’s arranged visas and (presumably) tickets for her family to join her. > [@](#): > > If you’re treating someone terribly, it’s no defense to say that someone else would treat them even more terribly. But that seems to be what you’re arguing: that we can’t criticize the boss for her terrible treatment of an employee, because if she weren’t exploiting the employee, the employee would be even worse off. Your standards for terrible are what I’m questioning. All such value judgments are relative. The place that you’re approaching them are minimum wage laws in the US and you then conclude that the treatment of the woman was terrible. I’m arguing that the conditions the woman was facing were a step up from what she would face in India, the only reason she was facing these conditions was her agreement with her employer. This agreement placed her in a better situation than she would have been in otherwise! There is no way she would have been making as much money as she was in this situation. Had the employer actually followed the law, this particular woman would definitely have been worse off. Criticising someone for breaking US law in this instance is one thing, and justifiable. Criticising them for making someone better off when they would otherwise have been worse off mystifies me, but if you still think it valid, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/214 "2013-12-19T03:05:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **bldysabba** , you’re arguing that it’s moral for powerful people to exploit the vulnerable as long as the vulnerable receive a tiny benefit. !? Strawman much? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/215 "2013-12-19T03:10:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What is your basis for concluding this woman was better off with this job in the U.S., **bldysabba**? In India perhaps she could have made a salary that was actually commensurate with the cost of living. Some of us would argue that $7.25 an hour isn’t enough to live on in the U.S., especially in an expensive place like New York, and $3.31 an hour isn’t even close. And then there’s the minor issue of duress, since she was apparently risking arrest for quitting. If room and board are paid for, what costs of living are you talking about Marley? This woman’s family is in India. Any costs that she bears for them are at Indian costs. As for the issue of duress, I have yet to read anything that indicates she was risking arrest for just quitting and going back home. If you do have any sources that indicate duress, I’d like to read them ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/216 "2013-12-19T03:20:16Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Oddly enough, I’m not one of the ones describing the arrangement as “slavery”. Exploitation, yes, but not to that particular extreme. > > Employers who stiff their employees _are_ regarded as scum in the US, and that’s where my “moral outrage” is coming from. Failure to pay your employees for work performed and services rendered is theft in this country and I am contemptuous of thieves regardless of social class or national origin. > And if she had been paid NYC minimum wage she would have been better off still. > Why is that an excuse for allowing US law to be broken in the US? But that’s just the thing - this woman(the maid/nanny) didn’t and couldn’t have the option of American wages or the wages promised to her. The only options she had were Indian wages(which come up to AT MOST half what she was given) or, well, what she was offered. The consular officer could never have afforded American minimum wages. Again - I’m not claiming this was the sensible or legal thing to do for the consular officer. She should not have done it and should have bloody well made do without help she could not afford under local laws. But let’s nobody pretend that she was exploiting the maid. She was not. It’s an unfortunate fact that human capital is cheap in India. To claim that she was exploiting someone by paying them double(at minimum) what their labour is worth does not make sense to me. The only reason the maid could earn this much money was because the consular officer was making sure she got a visa and came with her to the US. Is that not germane in this discussion for anyone? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/217 "2013-12-19T03:23:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, in the US same-sex marriage IS legal… in some states. I realize this can be confusing for outsiders but marriage laws can differ depending on where you live. It is legal in California, Connecticut, Delaware, the District of Columbia (Washington DC), Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. People from outside those states can travel to those states for the purpose of getting married. So it’s possible they did, in fact, meet the requirement of being legally married. Does the government of the US regard those marriages as legal? I would presume that what US states think has no bearing on international transactions. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/218 "2013-12-19T03:29:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The Convention does not further define the phrase, and it is left to individual countries to implement it. Unfortunately, in international law there is no supreme, unquestioned authority – in US law, the Supreme Court is such an authority and has spoken on this exact issue! as previously cited. > > I cannot find any contrary rulings from The Hague, either. > > So I would invite the Indian politician to show his work : on what legal authority is his opinion resting? And you – same question. It’s an article of the Indian Penal Code, instituted by the British, struck down by the High court a few years ago and then recently upheld on appeal by the Indian Supreme Court, which makes homosexuality a criminal offence which can be punished with imprisonment for ten years. In the absence of a ruling on the matter(since I don’t think India has ever arrested diplomatic staff from other countries - even Pakistanis just get deported. Could be wrong though) if the executive wanted, they could interpret it to be a grave offence I suppose. Not that they will. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/219 "2013-12-19T03:32:33Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > All i know is that before this thing, I had almost no opinion on India. All i knew was they have a long-standing emnity with Pakistan, produce some smart people, and are into cricket. Now I know that their cultural and moral values are entirely different from mine, if the protestors, posters on this board and Indian officials I’ve seen on TV are representative of the other 1 billion or so people there. They are different in a way that make it hard for me to see any benefit to deep and good relations between the US and India. I love how deep and well informed your opinions are. Kudos. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/220 "2013-12-19T03:34:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not slavery that’s being compared, it’s justifying a wrong done to someone against their will by saying it was actually good for them. That’s fucking pathetic. From where are you getting that the ‘wrong’ (could you define the ‘wrong’ by the way) that was done to this woman was against her will? Was she clapped in irons and shipped over from India? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=12)