# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/21 "2013-12-17T22:32:22Z")
The BBC’s coverage is more balanced. But we clearly stepped into a hornet’s nest this time. It’s just going to get worse if this case goes to trial. > **[Devyani Khobragade: India-US diplomat row escalates](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25411876)** > > India orders reprisals against the US, including the removal of security barriers around its embassy, after a diplomat is arrested in New York. > [@](#): > > On Tuesday, Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde called her treatment unacceptable. He cancelled his meeting with the senior US Congressional delegation and his office said he was busy in parliament, but media reports in India described it as a “snub” to the US. > > The governing Congress party Vice-President, Rahul Gandhi, and the opposition Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi also refused to meet the delegations. > > “Refused to meet the visiting USA delegation in solidarity with our nation, protesting ill-treatment meted to our lady diplomat in USA,” Mr Modi tweeted. > > On Monday, the Speaker of India’s parliament, Meira Kumar, and National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon had also refused to meet the Congressional officials. > > Mr Menon said Ms Khobragade’s treatment was “despicable and barbaric”. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/22 "2013-12-17T22:33:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s unfortunate this lady got treated this way. But I guess it wasn’t any different than what Americans have to put up with these days. Well, maybe she can argue that being incarcerated with poor people aggravated her affluenza. On the plus side, BOP has an all around higher class of clientele… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/23 "2013-12-17T22:40:39Z")
This is primarily a cultural issue. Servants in India are treated differently and paid less than the US. I’m not sure we need to apply our laws against a representative from India. She was here serving her country just like our consular employees do in India. I sympathize with the servant. But she isn’t an American. She’s from India and wasn’t she employed by this family in India? Didn’t she just transfer to NY to continue her employment? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/24 "2013-12-17T22:50:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The difference is in the intended function. The diplomatic agent – typically an ambassador and those in his stead – facilitate communication between the host and sending country. The consulate, on the other hand, is responsible for work of interest to the sending country: passport and visa issues, assistance to travelers, etc. Consular personnel, especially those assigned outside the capital city generally do not, by the terms of the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, have the same level of privileges that diplomats do. They do retain immunity for acts completed in their official capacities, but this is an affirmative defense that must be raised in court. > > In short: a deputy general consul is entitled to immunity for her official acts, but the police are permitted to arrest and detain her. This is correct. Most people who don’t work for the DOS think that just because you carry a diplomatic passport, you must have full diplomatic immunity. As administrative and support personnel, we were warned way back in orientation class that we had no true diplomatic immunity, and that if we committed a crime, it was quite possible that we could end up in a local prison. The ambassador and perhaps some high-ranking reporting officers are the only people who have actual immunity from prosecution in a country that recognizes the rules of the game. The only time that I saw someone get into problems with the local police, it was a drunk Marine Security Guard. He was arrested for assaulting an Egyptian cop, was arrested and detained. The embassy got him sprung, but it was on the condition that he personally apologize to the cop and that he be sent home to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/25 "2013-12-17T22:53:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This is primarily a cultural issue. Servants in India are treated differently and paid less than the US. I’m not sure we need to apply our laws against a representative from India. She was here serving her country just like our consular employees do in India. How is this supposed to be explain or justify her actions? She was required to pay her servant a certain amount and said that she was doing that, but she actually paid her a little more than 10% of that amount. > [@](#): > > I sympathize with the servant. But she isn’t an American. That’s very sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/26 "2013-12-17T22:54:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This is primarily a cultural issue. Servants in India are treated differently and paid less than the US. I’m not sure we need to apply our laws against a representative from India. She was here serving her country just like our consular employees do in India. > > I sympathize with the servant. But she isn’t an American. She’s from India and wasn’t she employed by this family in India? Didn’t she just transfer to NY to continue her employment? We have laws that you have to pay your servants a certain wage. Why should Indias laws about paying your servants crap wages apply here in the US? Also the Indian diplomat is not an American either so we should be able to treat her like crap too. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/27 "2013-12-17T22:54:55Z")
It’s only awful in our culture. If a person immigrated from India to the US then yes, they must change their way of living. They have to employ and pay servants according to US law. But in this case we’re prosecuting a representative of India for something that is completely normal in India. She would only be here for a short time while she was posted to that consulate. By prosecuting this woman we are in effect telling India how it should employ household staff. Which frankly is none of our business. > [@Marley23](#): > > I hoped for a minute you were talking about the alleged victim, but no. Seriously, do you realize you’re saying ‘This woman is powerful and accused of a white-collar crime, and it makes me sad that she was treated like a regular criminal?’ The _lady_ is accused of something awful. ---
**Author:** ![Cerealbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Cerealbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerealbox)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/28 "2013-12-17T22:55:25Z")
pics or it didn’t happen ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/29 "2013-12-17T23:00:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s only awful in our culture. What, breaking the law? Treating everybody as an equal under the law? That seems to be the crux of the outrage in India and in your OP. > [@](#): > > But in this case we’re prosecuting a representative of India for something that is completely normal in India. She and her maid were both living in New York, so if you’re claiming (without a cite) that her wage was standard for India, that wouldn’t do the maid much good. And of course the diplomat signed papers saying she was paying the standard wage. > [@](#): > > She would only be here for a short time while she was posted to that consulate. This is supposed to have gone on for six to eight months. Have you ever worked for $3 an hour for six months? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/30 "2013-12-17T23:04:07Z")
Just to clarify. Does anyone have a cite on how servants are treated in India? Is it actual slavery as we think of it in Harriet Beecher Stowe’s _Uncle Tom_? Is it that bad? I was under the impression Indian servants lived in the household. Paid poorly, but could leave if they were dissatisfied. Most don’t leave because the opportunities are so limited in India. Starving on the streets is worse than being a mistreated household servant. I realize by American standards its terrible. But we can’t fix or dictate how the disadvantaged are treated in India. It’s an independent country with its own ancient culture, history and laws. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/31 "2013-12-17T23:08:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s only awful in our culture. If a person immigrated from India to the US then yes, they must change their way of living. They have to employ and pay servants according to US law. > > But in this case we’re prosecuting a representative of India for something that is completely normal in India. She would only be here for a short time while she was posted to that consulate. By prosecuting this woman we are in effect telling India how it should employ household staff. Which frankly is none of our business. She also (allegedly) lied on her visa application. I assume that’s not part of their culture? I mean, it’s not like she absent-mindedly forgot about this peasant. She lied about it. What we’re telling India is that if they want visas to get in they can’t commit fraud. And that’s definitely our business (and a appropriate lesson to learn). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/32 "2013-12-17T23:10:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > But in this case we’re prosecuting a representative of India for something that is completely normal in India. Are you kidding me? So if a US consular official is posted overseas, and has no immunity from arrest and prosecution from serious crimes while in that country, pulls out a gun and shoots someone in that other country, he should be able to claim “stand your ground” is a normal thing in America, therefore he shouldn’t be prosecuted? Your whole point is totally ludicrous. Our country, our laws, and cultural norms in other countries don’t warrant a “get out of jail free” card and total exception to the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/33 "2013-12-17T23:20:20Z")
Well, as the BBC article pointed out two can play this legal game. Something to pause and think about. Right now this is still a minor rift in relations between India and the US. Hopefully we have the good sense to simply expel the lady back to India. A long extended trial and the lady’s imprisonment could seriously damage our relationship with an important ally. > [@](#): > > One official said US diplomats’ gay partners may also be liable to arrest for breaching Indian laws against homosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/34 "2013-12-17T23:21:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I realize by American standards its terrible. But we can’t fix or dictate how the disadvantaged are treated in India. It’s an independent country with its own ancient culture, history and laws. Is there anything known about the servant? Did she complain about her conditions, or someone else? Does the caste thing continue in India wherein some castes can touch certain things but not others? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/35 "2013-12-17T23:24:09Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So if a US consular official is posted overseas, and has no immunity from arrest and prosecution from serious crimes while in that country, pulls out a gun and shoots someone in that other country, he should be able to claim “stand your ground” is a normal thing in America, therefore he shouldn’t be prosecuted? One of those Lethal Weapon movies concerned this. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/36 "2013-12-17T23:24:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Right now this is still a minor rift in relations between India and the US. Hopefully we have the good sense to simply expel the lady back to India. A long extended trial and the lady’s imprisonment could seriously damage our relationship with an important ally. I’m extremely doubtful that a flap over the arrest of a minor diplomat is going to seriously damage U.S.-India relations over the long term. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is there anything known about the servant? Did she complain about her conditions, or someone else? She quit her job and hired a lawyer. I think that tells you what she thought about her conditions. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/37 "2013-12-17T23:46:15Z")
I realize India is one of our older and more dependable allies. It’s an ancient culture and relatively stable fixture in that region of the world. Theres immense poverty in cities like Bombay and Calcutta. I’m not suggesting this one incident will ruin our long relationship. If the lady is convicted and imprisoned it will cause tensions. I think it would be viewed in India as an injustice. A source of minor irritation between our countries. At most it will make daily life for our consulate staff in India much more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/38 "2013-12-17T23:55:53Z")
India is not an ally. Plus you are woefully misinformed if you think our relationship is historically strong. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/39 "2013-12-18T00:12:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I can remember when the US was like this. Cops were more courteous and respectful when dealing with middle class or wealthy non-violent offenders. They didn’t arrest some housewife in the suburbs for parking tickets and strip search her. She was arrested, held and required to pay the tickets. Woman were respected and treated with dignity. It’s true the lower classes didn’t get that same treatment but that doesn’t justify what the cops are routinely doing now… I fail to see how a woman deserves more respect or dignity that a man in the same circumstances. Ditto for middle-class or wealthy vs the working-class or poor. Also the cops being more courteous routine seldom applied to anyone who wasn’t white. > [@aceplace57](#): > > …But in this case we’re prosecuting a representative of India for something that is completely normal in India. She would only be here for a short time while she was posted to that consulate. By prosecuting this woman we are in effect telling India how it should employ household staff. Which frankly is none of our business. Consular postings can last multiple years, and even so when a diplomat applies for a visa for their personal domestic staff they have to agree to follow local labor laws. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/40 "2013-12-18T00:18:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Well, as the BBC article pointed out two can play this legal game. Something to pause and think about. > > Right now this is still a minor rift in relations between India and the US. Hopefully we have the good sense to simply expel the lady back to India. A long extended trial and the lady’s imprisonment could seriously damage our relationship with an important ally. Pretty much every country has a “payback” department. They are responsible for figuring out what will be an appropriate ‘tit’ for the ‘tat’ they’ve received. It was most apparent in the Cold War with the USSR and USA expelling diplomats as spies on a regular basis. The US will expel her from the country and India will pick some minor US consular officer to treat the same way. Throwing each other’s diplos in prison is just not a precedent anybody wants to set. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=3)