# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/421 "2013-12-21T20:37:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > why the hell should I take her word over anyone else’s? Because she’s of a particular social class? That’s not the way we do things in this country. 😃 Oh, no, American exceptionalism fallacy again :o ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/422 "2013-12-21T20:46:36Z")
Do consulates pay different rates in different countries to allow their staff to acquire “help” under varying cost conditions? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/423 "2013-12-21T20:47:54Z")
I’m also still curious how asking an employer to make up legally required back-pay is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/424 "2013-12-21T20:49:58Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Do consulates pay different rates in different countries to allow their staff to acquire “help” under varying cost conditions? That’s one of the surprising parts of this, to me. If diplomats like Khobragade need domestic help and they plainly cannot afford it, why isn’t India helping them out? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/425 "2013-12-21T20:52:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Then a maid wasn’t on the table. Once a maid is contracted and agrees to work in the U.S., she has to get the minimum wage. How many times must I say I agree with this? Can I get you to concede even once that the maid would have been worse off if she hadn’t come on this job? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/426 "2013-12-21T20:55:06Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Can I get you to concede even once that the maid would have been worse off if she hadn’t come on this job? No, because we don’t know what she would have done instead. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/427 "2013-12-21T20:55:31Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > For what must be the gazillionth time in the thread, I absolutely agree, it was mandatory, but try mandating that every Indian domestic servant should be paid American minimum wages, and you’ll realise what I mean when I say it isn’t an option. Their jobs will disappear because they will become unaffordable. This particular job existed ONLY because of the agreement that the woman be paid below American minimum wage. Without that (admittedly illegal) agreement, the woman would be in India, unemployed, or making a half or a third of what the agreement promised her. How do Indian diplomats afford apartments in New York City given their comparatively low wages? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/428 "2013-12-21T21:00:30Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > She quit because she could make herself even better off than she was. She couldn’t have gotten into that position without Khobragade, but once there, by accusing Khobragade of abuse she could make herself even better off. She disappears and in a week a lawyer calls up the employer with a demand for more money and an unrestricted passport? And she makes precisely the kind of accusations that enable her and her family to qualify for a special category of visa? Yeah, I’m not buying it. Again, none of this detracts from the fact that Khobragade was in the wrong and should be prosecuted. She didn’t wrong this maid though, not with the facts presented. If any abuse or confiscation of her passport is established, then sure. Do poor maids typically lie, cheat, and steal from powerful well connected people in India with no repercussions? Is such a thing so common that she would think screwing her employer was worth giving up a “great” job? Additionally, if she was being treated well, but just saw an opportunity to exploit her employer, who she allegedly viewed as family, why did she try to negotiate with her initially? Plus, why didn’t she do this to her previous high profile employer? What you are suggesting makes almost no sense. The ONLY reason she and her family are in the position they are in now is because of the greed of her employer, and the attempts to intimidate her family, both things she could not foresee or have any control over. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/429 "2013-12-21T21:19:40Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > How many times must I say I agree with this? Can I get you to concede even once that the maid would have been worse off if she hadn’t come on this job? As we keep responding, we don’t agree on the validity of the comparison, or that it is at all relevant. Being mistreated slightly less in one country is not an justification for mistreatment of any sort, regardless of the location. This has been stated many times in response to your point. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/430 "2013-12-21T23:10:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Being mistreated slightly less in one country is not an justification for mistreatment of any sort, regardless of the location. Isn’t that what Americans say about poor illegal Mexican immigrants? Seriously, at least 10 percent of NYC workforce are illegals and the laws are broken by employers on a daily basis and only for one reason - the reason why immigration reform is stalling - is that once legalized they’d have to be paid minimum wage. The sheer hypocrisy about Indian diplomat situation astounds me. Where do Americans get this self-righteousness is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/431 "2013-12-21T23:37:56Z")
American employers are routinely prosecuted for employing illegal immigrants, as is proper. But that is neither here nor there. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/432 "2013-12-21T23:50:21Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > American employers are routinely prosecuted for employing illegal immigrants, as is proper. > But that is neither here nor there. > [@](#): > > “It depends on which metric you choose,” she said. “If your metric is the number of audits, yes. **If your metric is bringing cases to prosecution that seriously punish employers, to the point where I would say there would be a deterrent effect, I would strongly disagree with her statement.** ” > **[Obama holds record for cracking down on employers who hire undocumented...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jul/03/debbie-wasserman-schultz/obama-holds-record-cracking-down-employers-who-hir/)** > > President Barack Obama is the boss-buster in chief when it comes to going after employers who hire undocumented workers, All I’m saying, sometimes, best approach is to get off that high horse politicians and media raise you at. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/433 "2013-12-22T00:14:57Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > For what must be the gazillionth time in the thread, I absolutely agree, it was mandatory, but try mandating that every Indian domestic servant should be paid American minimum wages, and you’ll realise what I mean when I say it isn’t an option. Their jobs will disappear because they will become unaffordable. I’m sorry, I’m not going to buy into allowing ANYONE working in my country to be paid less than minimum wage. _No one_. We do not have a two-tier system of employment in this country. If you work here you get minimum wage. Period. Sure, we’ve heard the argument that paying “that much” makes such employees unaffordable… and saw those jobs exported to places like India. The notion of now _importing_ people from other countries to work _here_ at less than minimum wage is seen as utterly intolerable because it will lead to employers importing foreign workers and leaving even more Americans unemployed. > [@](#): > > This particular job existed ONLY because of the agreement that the woman be paid below American minimum wage. Without that (admittedly illegal) agreement, the woman would be in India, unemployed, or making a half or a third of what the agreement promised her. I’m pretty darn sure that the cost of living where she came from is even less than a third of what she was making in NYC even at a criminally low wage. NYC is one of the most expensive cities here, if not the most expensive. If the choice is working as a live-in nanny here in the US at $3/hour and working as a live in nanny in India at $1/hour I’m not entirely convinced that the US deal is inherently better than the one in India. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/434 "2013-12-22T00:21:36Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > Can I get you to concede even once that the maid would have been worse off if she hadn’t come on this job? No, because I’m not convinced that is, in fact, truth. I don’t know that the woman would have remained unemployed if she had not taken the nanny job. I don’t know the cost of living in India or how it relates to any hypothetical salary the woman might have had. “More money” is not always the proper criteria by which to judge… and I speak as someone making 1/5 of what I did 10 years ago so I have some grasp of the potential trade-offs involved when comparing salary, working conditions, and cost of living in a particular location. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/435 "2013-12-22T00:23:08Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m sorry, I’m not going to buy into allowing ANYONE working in my country to be paid less than minimum wage. _No one_. We do not have a two-tier system of employment in this country. If you work here you get minimum wage. Period. Are you for real? :dubious: Oh, oh, I see… you are from Canada, right? You got to be! Because this much of obliviousness should be a punishable offence. ---
**Author:** ![Gopalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Gopalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gopalan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/436 "2013-12-22T00:31:47Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, because I’m not convinced that is, in fact, truth. I don’t know that the woman would have remained unemployed if she had not taken the nanny job. I don’t know the cost of living in India or how it relates to any hypothetical salary the woman might have had. “More money” is not always the proper criteria by which to judge… and I speak as someone making 1/5 of what I did 10 years ago so I have some grasp of the potential trade-offs involved when comparing salary, working conditions, and cost of living in a particular location. I agree. The maid was employed by an American diplomat in Delhi. So was her husband. She is quite literate as the extract from her diary/letter suggests and familiar with the Internet. She was interviewed and her behavior, including how she handled the children observed for a few days, before Khobargade hired her. It is not as if she was from some Delhi slum or one among thousands of maids that work in umpteen Delhi homes. The NYC job entailed separation from husband and children who were in India. It is not easy to put a monetary value on this separation. It is the elite Indian foreign service that says about $500 per month, plus room and board places her in a better situation than she was in India. There are nobody to proclaim what adequate compensation for her would be - that judgement is the maid’s - but the elite in India don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/437 "2013-12-22T00:38:13Z")
If folks in the boss’s position expect maids, and if they’re only paid enough to afford maids at sub-minimum-wage levels, and if the law is enforced, then the Indian government faces a couple of choices: 1. Only hire people who are independently wealthy to fill these positions, which is going to reduce the pool of qualified candidates; 2. Only hire people who are willing not to be paid enough to afford the amenities they expect, which is going to reduce the pool of qualified candidates; or 3. Pay enough that their workers can afford to hire maids, which is going to keep their pool of qualified candidates at current levels, but at increased cost to the government. Those are the choices India can make. They can absolutely make the choice that leads to the maid’s hiring under legal circumstances. If their consul employees are led to expect maids at illegal prices, the Indian government is failing. ---
**Author:** ![Gopalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Gopalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gopalan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/438 "2013-12-22T00:40:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > How do Indian diplomats afford apartments in New York City given their comparatively low wages? Good question. They are paid their Indian salary, plus allowances, and reimbursements. It is not a transparent (to the public and the taxpayer) system. All they disclose is the diplomat’s Indian salary. With some search, one can obtain information regarding total (across all employees) expenditure on allowances and reimbursements at a location/office. My guess is that the rent is paid by the Consulate/Embassy. It appears Khobragade lives in a two floor, 4 bedroom apartment in NYC - the rent would probably be close to $10K per month. Plus they are given reimbursement for education of children in private schools. And an entertainment allowance that I have reliably learnt they do not need to spend and is theirs to keep. The $4000 per month figure is likely the allowances Khobargade gets as cash. All of the above is free from US and Indian tax. ---
**Author:** ![Gopalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Gopalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gopalan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/439 "2013-12-22T00:46:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Those are the choices India can make. They can absolutely make the choice that leads to the maid’s hiring under legal circumstances. If their consul employees are led to expect maids at illegal prices, the Indian government is failing Indian Foreign Service officers are recruited through what is called a civil services examination. So the pool is a given. It appears that there is some rethink in Delhi at senior levels about what needs to be done now that US attorney has imposed a cost on connivance. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/440 "2013-12-22T01:03:08Z")
> [@Gopalan](#): > > Indian Foreign Service officers are recruited through what is called a civil services examination. So the pool is a given. I’m suggesting that fewer folks might be interested in these jobs if the benefits of the job decrease-is this incorrect? I definitely appreciate the information you bring to the thread, btw! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=23)