# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/501 "2014-01-10T09:56:48Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > India’s should have terminated her immediately for trafficking under their flag and lying under oath to US officials for personal benefit. That they defend her in any way is absolutely abhorrent. From the NYTimes article quoted earlier > [@](#): > > There are 14 other Indian maids working for Indian diplomats in the United States, and India is negotiating over their status with the State Department. To India, these maids should be considered Indian government employees whose employment does not fall under American wage and hour laws. If the US considers something to be human trafficking, and India doesn’t, there is legitimate ground for disagreement. And it is to discuss this sort of disagreement that diplomats exist, as a function. And it is why they’re given immunity. It’s the sort of thing that is a legitimate grey area, not “absolutely abhorrent”. The treatment of the maid (as limited to the wage issue) is far from abhorrent in Indian eyes. She was making a LOT of money by Indian standards, given her occupation, and that her expenses were paid for. For most Indians, especially lower income Indians, the ability to make and save money for their family is paramount(not go for coffees to Starbucks or the local salon for haircuts **Alessan** ). In the eyes of most Indians, Khobragade was doing the maid a good turn. And _factually_ speaking, she was. The maid approached Khobragade for a job. She knowingly accepted terms that are very generous from an Indian perspective. There is no doubt about this - there was a signed contract, bank records prove payments were made to her family. Critically, she also retained the freedom to return to India if she wanted to quit her job. There is a strong case to be made out that the maid went missing because she wanted to continue working in the US, not because was suffering abuse. She had incentive to do so, and that her first and most substantial demand was that the Indian government provide her an unrestricted passport is strong evidence for this. That you and many others in this thread want to slap the label of human trafficking on an issue that is not at all straightforward and go about strutting your moral superiority is what raises some small degree of abhorrence in me. Human trafficking ought not to be trivialised in the manner that you’re doing. If it is shown that there was abuse (above and beyond the wage issue), or if the maid was forced to remain in the US and work Khobragade when she wanted to go home instead, my argument stands null and void. I accept that. I just haven’t seen any convincing evidence beyond the allegations of a maid who stands to gain significantly by making those allegations. At the same time, I maintain, as I have throughout this thread and reiterated in practically every post, that Khobragade is a foolish and shortsighted idiot who acted criminally by lying on the maid’s visa application and attempting to benefit by subverting US laws on wages. My only attempt has been to try and get people to see that her actions brought about mutual benefit for both Khobragade and maid. The only other viable option - leave the maid in India, would have hurt the maid. It’s what should have been done, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/502 "2014-01-10T10:00:22Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Now, it may well be that she won’t be back anytime soon. I can’t believe Manmohan Singh, who stands out above other politicians with his reputation for incorruptibility, decency and kindness, likes being a defender of servant abuse. However, if the next PM is Narendra Modi, she could easily find her way back. You’re slightly out of date with your statements about Indian politics I’m afraid. The only thing Manmohan Singh stands out for these days is the amount of corruption, indecency and ineffectiveness he will tolerate in the system that he is supposedly the head of. If I may ask, what prompts your statement about Modi? I’m not a fan, nor even a supporter of his, but I dislike even more his trial by media and distant observer. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/503 "2014-01-10T10:06:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They shouldn’t, but when this was discussed earlier, the implication was that India was going to make people do a bunch of paperwork because they were angry about the prosecution. Anyway the grand jury has indicted her. Who discussed and who implied? Posters on a message board? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/504 "2014-01-10T11:46:11Z")
**bldysabba** , no offence, but give it a rest. I understand you. The point is not one that these people here are understanding off and you are just risking hypertension by harping on about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/505 "2014-01-10T11:58:33Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > If the US considers something to be human trafficking, and India doesn’t, there is legitimate ground for disagreement. If it’s happening in the US, there is zero ground for disagreement. They knew it was the law here and deliberately forged documents to try to get around it. That’s not legitimate disagreement. Everything else you’ve posted below has already been addressed in this thread and is still just as irrelevant as it was the first time it came up. > [@bldysabba](#): > > The treatment of the maid (as limited to the wage issue) is far from abhorrent in Indian eyes. She was making a LOT of money by Indian standards, given her occupation, and that her expenses were paid for. For most Indians, especially lower income Indians, the ability to make and save money for their family is paramount(not go for coffees to Starbucks or the local salon for haircuts **Alessan** ). In the eyes of most Indians, Khobragade was doing the maid a good turn. And _factually_ speaking, she was. Many trafficed people are, _factually_ speaking, better off than they were in shithole they came from. So what? > [@bldysabba](#): > > The maid approached Khobragade for a job. She knowingly accepted terms that are very generous from an Indian perspective. There is no doubt about this - there was a signed contract, bank records prove payments were made to her family. Critically, she also retained the freedom to return to India if she wanted to quit her job. There is a strong case to be made out that the maid went missing because she wanted to continue working in the US, not because was suffering abuse. She had incentive to do so, and that her first and most substantial demand was that the Indian government provide her an unrestricted passport is strong evidence for this. That you and many others in this thread want to slap the label of human trafficking on an issue that is not at all straightforward and go about strutting your moral superiority is what raises some small degree of abhorrence in me. Human trafficking ought not to be trivialised in the manner that you’re doing. Of course she wanted to stay in the US. Do most trafficed people not want to stay in the US? Of course she wanted a passport; India considers having one to be her fundamental right. > [@bldysabba](#): > > If it is shown that there was abuse (above and beyond the wage issue), or if the maid was forced to remain in the US and work Khobragade when she wanted to go home instead, my argument stands null and void. I accept that. I just haven’t seen any convincing evidence beyond the allegations of a maid who stands to gain significantly by making those allegations. The wage issue is sufficient in the United States. And of course the maid stands to gain significantly from being paid legal wages instead of illegal wages. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/506 "2014-01-10T12:00:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > **bldysabba** , no offence, but give it a rest. I understand you. The point is not one that these people here are understanding off and you are just risking hypertension by harping on about it. Yeah, I know, that’s why I’d mostly given up responding. When it popped back up, I popped back in. Mistake perhaps 🙂 I’m cool though, message boards don’t give me hypertension. Some vexation at how dense people can be perhaps. On a related note, maybe a lawyer like you or **Bricker** would know - now that Khobragade’s been sort of allowed to go back to India, but the charges against her remain, has she technically skipped on bail? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/507 "2014-01-10T12:30:54Z")
India asks US embassy to withdraw an officer of a rank similar to that of Devyani Khobragade > [@](#): > > 17:26 Withdraw officer of rank similar to Khobragade: India tells US: In what is believed to be India’s tit-for-tat to the US in the Devyani Khobragade episode, India as asked the US to withdraw the diplomatic immunity of its diplomat who used his tax exemption privilege to book tickets for Sangeeta Richard’s family. India has asked the US Embassy in New Delhi to withdraw an officer of a rank similar to that of diplomat Devyani Khobragade. > If the immunity is not revoked, the person will be asked to leave the country, the government has warned. The government said it has reason to believe that the officer was involved in processing the Richard’s family’s papers. Hope thats not it. Like I said, hope one of theirs gets thrown behind bars and is subjected to custodial harassment . This is a minor case, USA is harboring fugitives from indian law also in 1. Bhopal gas tragedy case, worst case where 16k people died. (person named warren anderson) 2. David Headly- CIA agent and main conspirator of Mumbai terror attacks ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/508 "2014-01-10T13:03:14Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > In the eyes of most Indians, Khobragade was doing the maid a good turn. And _factually_ speaking, she was. If so, most Indians then don’t understand that, in the US, cases such as this are tried in the press in an attempt to generate pre-trial publicity favorable to each side. The defense is especially free to make such statements. Factually speaking, we do not know the facts. I could almost be inclined towards your POV because the charges (below minimum wage pay, lying on forms) seem by themselves to be the kind of thing prosecutorial discretion might ignore if that’s all there was. My guess is that if it had gone to trial, we would have found the servant to have ample, by anyone’s standards, reason to flee this employer. Your guess seems to be that treatment was fine by Indian standards, just not consistent with US law. We probably will never know, although we might get a better idea if the servant gives an interview to fact-chececking US long-form media, such as the New Yorker or Atlantic Monthly. > [@bldysabba](#): > > If I may ask, what prompts your statement about Modi? Maybe that part of my post was too confident where my knowledge is weak. But to answer your question, Modi has made statements defending Khobragade. And he has a reputation for boldness. Sending her back to New York would be a headline-grabbing bold maneuver where he could seem to be standing up to the US. While sending her back would be un-diplomatic, the US would not retaliate. I don’t see a downside for India other than the implied message that employers can treat servants as they wish. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/509 "2014-01-10T15:13:47Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Hope thats not it. Like I said, hope one of theirs gets thrown behind bars and is subjected to custodial harassment . For no reason at all? Do you have no interest at all in the rule of law? > [@](#): > > This is a minor case, USA is harboring fugitives from indian law also in > > 1. Bhopal gas tragedy case, worst case where 16k people died. (person named warren anderson) > 2. David Headly- CIA agent and main conspirator of Mumbai terror attacks I don’t know anything about the Warren Anderson matter, but David Headley was convicted in US court and sentenced to 35 years. “Rotting in Federal prison” is not “the US harboring fugitives.” You seriously need to get a dose of reality here. [Cite.](http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2013/david-colemen-headley-sentenced-to-35-years-in-prison-for-role-in-india-and-denmark-terror-plots) ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/510 "2014-01-10T15:42:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For no reason at all? Reason for arrest has to be there as per India Law, that goes without saying. I am reasonably sure that reasons exist and can easily be found. > [@](#): > > I don’t know anything about the Warren Anderson matter, ya well, know abt it. start [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Anderson_(American_businessman)). > [@](#): > > but David Headley was convicted in US court and sentenced to 35 years. “Rotting in Federal prison” is not “the US harboring fugitives.” [Cite.](http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-releases/2013/david-colemen-headley-sentenced-to-35-years-in-prison-for-role-in-india-and-denmark-terror-plots) I already know this. In India, he would have got death sentence and would have been hanged to death by now(like the lone terrorist caught - Kasab) after extracting the relevant info. EDIT: Its like saying tht US would be satisfied if Osama was in Afghan prison for ‘x’ years for 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/511 "2014-01-10T15:48:52Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Like I said, hope one of theirs gets thrown behind bars and is subjected to custodial harassment . Right, “hope.” ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/512 "2014-01-10T15:53:16Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > EDIT: Its like saying tht US would be satisfied if Osama was in Afghan prison for ‘x’ years for 9/11. I think it would be difficult to say with a straight face that Afghanistan was “harboring a fugitive” if Osama had been sentenced to an unsatisfactory amount of time. I mean, Switzerland is “harboring” a fugitive. That’s what “haboring” looks like. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/513 "2014-01-10T16:00:14Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I think it would be difficult to say with a straight face that Afghanistan was “harboring a fugitive” if Osama had been sentenced to an unsatisfactory amount of time. Extradition treaty exists between India and the US. The crime was committed on Indian soil. 170 died , many 100s injured. India demanded for extradition. Why would we care if he is free in america or is in their prison when he is escaping Indian law and a reasonably sure death sentence and possesses valuable intel? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/514 "2014-01-10T16:01:46Z")
Court issues arrest warrant for former CEO of Union Carbide in gas leak case > [@](#): > > 1984 Union Carbide gas leak in Bhopal, India killed at least 10,000 people and was the world’s worst industrial disaster > **[Indian court issues arrest warrant for Warren Anderson, the former head of...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/jul/31/warren-anderson-arrest-warrant)** > > 1984 Union Carbide gas leak in Bhopal, India killed at least 10,000 people and was the world's worst industrial disaster ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/515 "2014-01-10T16:27:49Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Extradition treaty exists between India and the US. The crime was committed on Indian soil. 170 died , many 100s injured. India demanded for extradition. > > Why would we care if he is free in america or is in their prison when he is escaping Indian law and a reasonably sure death sentence and possesses valuable intel? I don’t know enough about it, but why wouldn’t that fall within the “extradite or proscute” exception to the treaty? But, still, I think there would be a substantial difference between someone who was prosecuted and imprisoned or free. But maybe not in India. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/516 "2014-01-10T16:33:18Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Extradition treaty exists between India and the US. The crime was committed on Indian soil. 170 died , many 100s injured. India demanded for extradition. > > Why would we care if he is free in america or is in their prison when he is escaping Indian law and a reasonably sure death sentence and possesses valuable intel? The [US-India extradition treaty](http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/India%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States1.pdf) _specifically states_ that if you’ve been convicted of the crime in the Requested country, extradition will be refused: > [@](#): > > Article 6 > > Prior Prosecution > > 1. Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been > convicted or acquitted in the Requested State for the offense for which > extradition is requested. > > 2. Extradition shall not be precluded by the fact that the authorities in the > Requested State have decided not to prosecute the person sought for the > acts for which extradition is requested, or to discontinue any criminal > proceedings which have been instituted against the person sought for > those acts. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/517 "2014-01-10T16:42:41Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The [US-India extradition treaty](http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/India%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States1.pdf) _specifically states_ that if you’ve been convicted of the crime in the Requested country, extradition will be refused: Headley was convicted of the crime committed on Indian soil. Apply that to Osama example. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/518 "2014-01-10T16:56:01Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The [US-India extradition treaty](http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/India%20International%20Extradition%20Treaty%20with%20the%20United%20States1.pdf) _specifically states_ that if you’ve been convicted of the crime in the Requested country, extradition will be refused: I think but not 100% sure that extradition demand was made before conviction. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/519 "2014-01-10T17:55:53Z")
One possible solution would be for India to recruit and hire the maids for foreign service. Assign them as needed to the overseas diplomatic officers. Their pay would come from India just like the Diplomat’s pay comes from India. That way the overseas officer would play no part in the payment of this employee. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think US labor laws would apply. India has been claiming this anyway in the Khobragade case. But there has been no evidence of a program that hires and assigns domestic help. Nothing comes free. The Diplomatic officer would get some deduction in pay for the domestic assigned to them. It would also be a PITA for India to administer. A administrator/supervisor would have to be posted overseas to assign domestic help, supervise and handle personnel issues. I’d guess India already has a Human Resource person in the embassy? The embassy has staff and Diplomats that requires this service. It wouldn’t be hard to include domestic help as part of the embassy staff. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/520 "2014-01-10T17:59:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > One possible solution would be for India to recruit and hire the maids for foreign service. Assign them as needed to the overseas diplomatic officers. If the diplomats need maids and can’t afford them, that’s the obvious solution. > [@](#): > > I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think US labor laws would apply. They would. This could not be any simpler: if they work in the U.S., their employer has to follow local law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=27)