# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/521 "2014-01-10T18:21:08Z")
A Embassy has a lot of staff, secretaries, supervisors, managers. You’re saying they all fall under the local country’s labor laws? I didn’t realize that. I know embassy’s will hire local people for some jobs. Cooks, cashiers, and general help. But nothing important. You can’t give a stranger the keys to the file room or access to the diplomat’s private offices. 😉 That would be a very bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/522 "2014-01-10T18:45:06Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Reason for arrest has to be there as per India Law, that goes without saying. I am reasonably sure that reasons exist and can easily be found. Is that how the rule of law works in India? First they decide to arrest you, then they look for a crime? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/523 "2014-01-10T19:07:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is that how the rule of law works in India? First they decide to arrest you, then they look for a crime? No, but there are certain charges which are easy to prosecute such as taxation. also, as quote earlier by **aceplace57** > [@](#): > > An Indian government official said on Friday that New Delhi had asked the U.S. embassy to provide details about people working in American schools and other U.S. government facilities to determine if they had permission to do so and if they were paying taxes that are mandatory under Indian law. > > Diplomats’ spouses who take up work in schools or other embassy facilities are supposed to inform the host country. > \*\* > Violations of this kind had often been ignored, but now India would not turn a blind eye, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.\*\* > **[World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From...](https://www.nbcnews.com/world?lite)** > > Get the latest news, updates, and video from around the globe. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/524 "2014-01-10T20:32:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > One possible solution would be for India to recruit and hire the maids for foreign service. [According to the indictment of Ms. Khobragade the diplomat withheld Ms. Richard’s passport](http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/sangeeta-richard-says-she-suffered-under-khobragade/article5561817.ece) [Also see](http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2014/01/10/key-points-devyani-khobragades-indictment/): > [@](#): > > The indictment alleges that Ms. Khobragade refused permission for her employee to return to India when she felt she was being mistreated. The diplomat had taken Ms. Richard’s passport away from her when she started working for her in Nov. 2012, saying it would be returned in three years after the term of employment was up, according to prosecutors. > > In June, Ms. Richard went to her employer’s office at the Indian consulate in New York and said she could no longer work for her “because she was unhappy with her low salary, long hours and harsh work conditions and wanted to go home,” the indictment states. > > Ms. Khobragade refused to return her employee’s passport, prosecutors say. If true, your plan seems to be for the Indian government to violate the [Universal Declaration of Human Rights](http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml): > [@](#): > > Article 13. > > (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. > (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. There is no need for a solution to the problem of the US government having laws against holding people against their will. Instead, there is a need for a solution to the problem of the US government not enforcing those laws. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/525 "2014-01-10T20:41:23Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > ya well, know abt it. start [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Anderson_(American_businessman)). I looked at the Wikiepdia article earlier, and it wasn’t very illuminating about the legal dispute. I’m of course aware of Bhopal tragedy, which continues to be a mind-blowing disaster. > [@](#): > > EDIT: Its like saying tht US would be satisfied if Osama was in Afghan prison for ‘x’ years for 9/11. I think you know perfectly well that the average person in any country would view the Afghan penal system with great skepticism. Do you view the US justice system as being equivalent to the Afghan legal system? I bet you don’t. I will say my own view that if some notorious criminal wanted in the United States were tried in, say, the UK courts and imprisoned for a very long time, I would have reasonable faith that justice was served. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/526 "2014-01-10T21:07:22Z")
America and India exchanged a Tit for Tat diplomat expulsion. It’s no surprise. This was SOP during the Cold War. > **[US diplomat to leave Delhi embassy amid Khobragade row](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25690540)** > > The US confirms that an American official will leave its embassy in Delhi at India's request, amid a diplomatic row over envoy Devyani Khobragade. > [@](#): > > The US has confirmed that an American official will leave its embassy in Delhi at India’s request, amid a diplomatic row. > > The US state department said it deeply regretted the move and hoped that it would bring closure to the case. > > The row erupted after Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade was arrested in New York on charges of visa fraud and underpaying her housekeeper. > > She was asked to leave and arrived back in Delhi on Friday evening. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/527 "2014-01-10T21:47:13Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Headley was convicted of the crime committed on Indian soil. Apply that to Osama example. What does the “Osama example” have to do with an India/US treaty? That is what binds both sides in this case. If Pakistan (not Afghanistan, dunno where you got that from) had managed to arrest Osama, then their treaty would be relevant. The Indian one would still be irrelevant. You, for whatever reason, seem to have no regard for either justice or law, merely wanting revenge for the perceived mistreatment of your diplomat, and with frankly unpleasant irony no regard whatsoever for the actual, illegal, mistreatment of her maid. Pretty disgusting really. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/528 "2014-01-10T22:02:03Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > This is a minor case, USA is harboring fugitives from indian law also in > > 1. Bhopal gas tragedy case, worst case where 16k people died. (person named warren anderson) It’s funny that people are still making noise about this. The US has told India that all they have to do is provide documentation as required by the extradition treaty. Of course, that documentation includes evidence. And given that the incident was caused by Indian citizens with no input or oversight by Anderson, I’m not holding my breath for that evidence to be provided. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/529 "2014-01-11T01:57:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > America and India > exchanged a Tit for Tat diplomat expulsion. It’s no surprise. This was > SOP during the Cold War. > [US diplomat to leave Delhi embassy amid Khobragade row - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25690540) diplomats who help escape thugs and criminals are criminals themselves n deserve to be arrested n booted out of india. So its nice. But also Disappointing that we might not have the arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/530 "2014-01-11T09:54:17Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > No, but there are certain charges which are easy to prosecute such as taxation. > also, as quote earlier by **aceplace57** > > [World News: Latest International Headlines, Video, and Breaking Stories From Around The Globe | NBC News](http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/27/22072086-american-schools-officials-targeted-in-india-as-diplomat-dispute-deepens?lite) Good. Maybe now both countries will stop turning blind eyes and start obeying the law. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/531 "2014-01-11T14:13:14Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > If so, most Indians then don’t understand that, in the US, cases such as this are tried in the press in an attempt to generate pre-trial publicity favorable to each side. The defense is especially free to make such statements. Factually speaking, we do not know the facts. > > I could almost be inclined towards your POV because the charges (below minimum wage pay, lying on forms) seem by themselves to be the kind of thing prosecutorial discretion might ignore if that’s all there was. My guess is that if it had gone to trial, we would have found the servant to have ample, by anyone’s standards, reason to flee this employer. Your guess seems to be that treatment was fine by Indian standards, just not consistent with US law. We probably will never know, although we might get a better idea if the servant gives an interview to fact-chececking US long-form media, such as the New Yorker or Atlantic Monthly. If there was indeed any abuse apart from the wage issue, I’m absolutely agreed that it is unacceptable on moral grounds as well. My own guess is that those charges are fabricated by the maid - they help make her case stronger and allow her family to be given US visas under the trafficking charge. Nor do I see any way that the question could be settled - it would come down to the maid’s word against Khobragade’s. It’s entirely possible that prosecutorial discretion was not applied because this appears to be a common problem that crops up. It is entirely likely that they were going for deterrence and miscalculated the Indian response. > **[L'Affaire Khobragade: A tale of two narratives](https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/laffaire-khobragade-a-tale-of-two-narratives/article5479354.ece)** > > global News:L'Affaire Khobragade: A tale of two narratives > [@](#): > > The fact is that the U.S. has in recent years faced a slew of ‘maid abuse’ cases within the diplomatic community here. Even as far back as 2008 a government watchdog, the Government Accountability Office “identified 42 household workers with A-3 or G-5 visas who alleged that they were abused by foreign diplomats with immunity from 2000 through 2008, but the total number is likely higher. > [@](#): > > Maybe that part of my post was too confident where my knowledge is weak. > > But to answer your question, Modi has made statements defending Khobragade. And he has a reputation for boldness. Sending her back to New York would be a headline-grabbing bold maneuver where he could seem to be standing up to the US. While sending her back would be un-diplomatic, the US would not retaliate. I don’t see a downside for India other than the implied message that employers can treat servants as they wish. As far as I know, he has not defended her treatment of the maid. He has protested Khobragade’s ill treatment by the US. With elections in three months and him being primary challenger, of course he would make statements of that nature. If he were to come to power, I have no reason to think that he would want poor relations with the US. He seems to be a fairly pragmatic type where governance is concerned. There is of course the matter that the US has felt free to judge him persona non grata in the matter of the 2002 riots where Indian courts have concluded that there is insufficient evidence to judge him guilty. I personally think that is unreasonably arrogant of the US, but I haven’t heard Modi remark on it. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/532 "2014-01-11T14:23:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > America and India exchanged a Tit for Tat diplomat expulsion. It’s no surprise. This was SOP during the Cold War. > [US diplomat to leave Delhi embassy amid Khobragade row - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25690540) This isn’t just tit for tat. I believe the maid’s husband had charges against him in India and the officer who processed his visa papers is the one who has been expelled. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/533 "2014-01-11T17:40:18Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > America and India exchanged a Tit for Tat diplomat expulsion. It’s no surprise. This was SOP during the Cold War. > [US diplomat to leave Delhi embassy amid Khobragade row - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25690540) As I predicted way back in Post #40. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/534 "2014-01-11T18:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Security barricades around the US embassy in the capital were removed and a visiting US delegation was snubbed by senior Indian politicians and officials. > > On Wednesday, the embassy was ordered to stop “commercial activities on its premises”. India also said that embassy cars could be penalised for traffic offences. > > The embassy has been told to shut down a club within its premises which includes a pool, restaurant and tennis court, NDTV news channel said India’s government really is trying to convince the world it comprises a gaggle petulant children, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/535 "2014-01-11T18:39:11Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > India’s government really is trying to convince the world it comprises a gaggle petulant children, isn’t it? On the contrary, it’s finally growing up by not kowtowing and by revoking those diplomatic rights and privileges which its own diplomats don’t enjoy. Better that it should have done this without such ugliness to precede it, but good that it happens nonetheless. > [@](#): > > External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said India is not doing anything except what is appropriate on the reciprocal arrangements. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/536 "2014-01-11T19:52:36Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > On the contrary, it’s finally growing up by not kowtowing and by revoking those diplomatic rights and privileges which its own diplomats don’t enjoy. Better that it should have done this without such ugliness to precede it, but good that it happens nonetheless. Their diplomats do indeed have diplomatic rights and privileges, but their consular and support people do not, just like with every other country, including the US. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/537 "2014-01-11T22:11:18Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Their diplomats do indeed have diplomatic rights and privileges, but their consular and support people do not, just like with every other country, including the US. You’re wrong. Consular staff too have rights and privileges, though they are more limited. In any case, I was not referring to immunity. The measures taken by India have been to revoke those privileges granted to US staff/embassy which are not reciprocated. Things like special airport access, duty free commercial operations within embassy premises, immunity to family members etc. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/538 "2014-01-12T03:24:11Z")
And permission to traffic people and pay them illegal wages. Don’t forget about that one. Not sure what those poor consular staff are going to do now. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/539 "2014-01-12T06:29:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > One possible solution would be for India to recruit and hire the maids for foreign service. Assign them as needed to the overseas diplomatic officers. Their pay would come from India just like the Diplomat’s pay comes from India. That way the overseas officer would play no part in the payment of this employee. I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t think US labor laws would apply. > . Thats a good suggestion and has come up here. Maids’ salaries would most likely be less than Devyani’s maid. And if the US objects and denies visa to workers on wages ground, India kicks Diplomats’ relatives, maids and drivers out of India imho. And Prohibits Indians from working in US embassies and consulates. Diplomats should be able to clean their embassies and drive their cars themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2014, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/540 "2014-01-12T07:56:17Z")
Or instead of doing all these impressive bureaucratic contortions, they could just pay their maids a decent salary. That’s also an option. I mean, seriously - the amount of effort the Indian government is expending for the sole purpose of not allowing \* Indian citizens\* to make more money is just mind-boggling. Do you really have so much contempt for your own working class? For your own people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=28)