# U.S. Authorities strip search Indian diplomat (female). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591 "2013-12-17T20:02:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/81 "2013-12-18T05:36:41Z")
There is simply no excuse for what this federal judge did. In the interest of foreign relations, the judge should have contacted the State Dept before proceeding. Unless the State Dept WAS aware that an arrest warrant was being issued and OK’d the deal. (Did the Obama administration drop the foreign-relations ball or were they innocent and ignorant of the whole situation?) India is responding and not in a good way. U.S./India relations have been made more difficult because of this. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/82 "2013-12-18T06:13:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If she broke several laws as she is alleged to have done, the United States should absolutely do nothing of the sort. She should have a trial and if found guilty serve a reasonable sentence. > > At this point, this woman owes an apology to the victim of her maltreatment, to the United States for her actions, and to the Indian government for failing to uphold a minimum standard of conduct while representing her country abroad. The only shocking thing here is that so many people can’t recognize who the true victim here is. She hasn’t been proven to have done anything yet. Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Circus airport arrest, perp walk, big international incident, pissed off France, lots of outrage and demonization over his sexcapades and then the case fell apart and all charges were dropped. But by then he was totally ruined. Given that precedent and the fact that India is retaliating against U.S. diplomats, I wish this had been handled a little more delicately. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/83 "2013-12-18T06:40:16Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > was what she did illegal under Indian law? That depends. The Indian law for the rich, or the Indian law for the poor? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/84 "2013-12-18T06:57:40Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Ironically, Khobragade is [known](http://gawker.com/womens-rights-advocate-paid-her-nanny-three-dollars-an-1483881548) as an advocate for the rights of underprivileged women. maid’s food, stay n other diff expenses were covered apart frm the salary she gets. us s/w engineers also get abt 50$ per day when in US Temporarily apart frm food stay travel n indian salary. the only issue is US Interpretation of article 41, pls read post 64 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/85 "2013-12-18T07:33:14Z")
Hardly the first Indian to have been abused by a bunch of gun-toting cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/86 "2013-12-18T08:46:56Z")
Straight out of the Mahabharatta! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/87 "2013-12-18T09:09:46Z")
Do claims of diplomatic or consular immunity have to be validated by the Ambassador or Consul? If so, was immunity denied in this case? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/88 "2013-12-18T10:06:10Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > was what she did illegal under Indian law? if so, is strip searching the norm in India for an equivalent crime? What’s Indian law got to do with anything? She committed the crime in the US, whilst subject to US law. India needs to mind its own business here. Its business, of course, does include the arresting of any American consuls there if there’s good reason to suspect them of criminal behaviour, so if there’s any that are they should probably be a bit careful… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/89 "2013-12-18T11:47:26Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This is primarily a cultural issue. Servants in India are treated differently and paid less than the US. I’m not sure we need to apply our laws against a representative from India. She was here serving her country just like our consular employees do in India. > > I sympathize with the servant. But she isn’t an American. She’s from India and wasn’t she employed by this family in India? Didn’t she just transfer to NY to continue her employment? [Sir Charles James Napier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_James_Napier) addressed a similar question awhile ago: > [@](#): > > A story for which Napier is often noted involved Hindu priests complaining to him about the prohibition of Sati by British authorities. This was the custom of burning a widow alive on the funeral pyre of her husband. As first recounted by his brother William, he replied: > > ``` > "Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs." > > ``` So, sure: India has a custom of treating servants like slaves. We have a custom of arresting people who treat servants like slaves. Let us all act according to national customs. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/90 "2013-12-18T12:57:20Z")
I gotta say, this story has it all: -“We can’t judge them by our standards!” Implication: those people aren’t as advanced as we are, we can’t expect them to understand that slavery is wrong. -“That poor woman being strip-searched!” Implication: women can’t withstand the consequences of their action the way that men can. -“It’d be one thing if this was happening to a poor person, but this is a middle-class person!” Implication: it’s more important to treat rich people with respect than to treat poor people with respect. Racism, sexism, and overwhelmingly classism. Pretty impressive for a single story. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/91 "2013-12-18T13:01:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > So much for diplomatic immunity. I’m disturbed by this because the lady was arrested for basically a white collar crime. Falsifying paperwork. Falsifying paperwork? Apparently she was paying her “domestic help” something like a third of minimum wage. You don’t think exploitation of another human being to be a crime? I’m getting rather sick about hearing of the systematic exploitation of domestic help, and I don’t think “they’re from another country” is a valid excuse. If you’re going to employ someone while in the US you have to follow US law. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/92 "2013-12-18T13:07:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not sure what wages the US requires for live in domestic help. Free room & board is a substantial benefit in NY. Requiring someone to pay minimum wage wouldn’t make sense. This should be covered in the law. It probably is, but it’s most likely a different minimum wage, not a lack of minimum wage. > [@](#): > > Waitresses aren’t paid minimum wage because they earn tips. Incorrect. There is a _separate_ minimum wage for people expected to get regular tips. Also, that plus tips is supposed to be at least standard minimum wage and if it isn’t the employer is supposed to make up the difference. > [@](#): > > Salesman get paid very little because they earn sales commissions. The rules behind that arrangement are also subject to law. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/93 "2013-12-18T13:15:33Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > 3 things to be done by the US- > > 1. Unconditional apology Why should the US apologize for upholding US law? I’m sorry if you think enforcing US law on US soil is outrageous - no, second thought, I’m not sorry. If you don’t understand that that US law applies on US soil screw you. > [@](#): > > 1. dropping of all charges against the diplomat Just because she works for an embassy does not give her _carte blanche_ to do whatever heck she pleases. It’s not an absolute immunity. > [@](#): > > 1. taking measures so such things do not happen in future. Excuse me? You’re advocating that we let criminals go free while they exploit the labor of others? > [@](#): > > Check these videos to get a sense of outrage in India and some cool america bashing _\>Yawn\<_ Do you know how much “America bashing” I’ve seen in the past half century? > [@truthSeeker2](#): > > maid’s food, stay n other diff expenses were covered apart frm the salary she gets. us s/w engineers also get abt 50$ per day when in US Temporarily apart frm food stay travel n indian salary. > > the only issue is US Interpretation of article 41, pls read post 64 Don’t do this shit. Your English is shaky enough, when you start writing in abbreviations and L33T crap it becomes incomprehensible. From what I can puzzle out from that gibberish, you seem to think an “Indian salary” is appropriate in the US. No, it’s not. We have laws regulating the minimum you can pay domestic help. Failure to comply is called theft of services and is a crime here. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/94 "2013-12-18T13:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Manhattan Attorney Preet Bharara under scanner for ‘targeting Indians’ > > The row between Washington and New Delhi over the arrest of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade has brought into focus the role of Preet Bharara, the US attorney for the Southern District of New York. > > Mail circulating among the South Block officials shows Bharara has come under the scanner for targeting people of Indian origin. > > Before spearheading the arrest proceedings in Devyani’s case, Bharara had hit the headlines for prosecuting former McKinsey MD Rajat Gupta for insider trading charges. > > Many from the diplomatic community wondered why there was no thought given to bringing to justice those who have committed crimes against India. > > Significantly, the US has given asylum to countless pro-Khalistanis. It may be mentioned that American courts have been admitting law suits filed by pro-Khalistani groups against Indian leaders. > > Summons were issued to leaders like Congress president Sonia Gandhi and Union Minister Kamal Nath and even the Congress party in connection with the 1984 anti-Sikh riots. > > “How are the US courts concerned with a matter that did not occur within its territory?” a senior official wondered. > > The development surrounding Devyani brought back memories of Krittika Biswas, the daughter of an Indian diplomat posted at the Indian Consulate in New York, who was arrested in her school, handcuffed and forced to spend 28 hours in a detention cell for cyber-bullying in February 2011.It was later found that another student was responsible for the crime. > > India and the US differ on the issue of immunity that should be granted to Devyani. Washington argues that she does not have immunity from arrest. But officials have pointed out a double standard, as witnessed in the case of Raymond Davis, who was arrested for the murder of two Pakistanis in Lahore in 2011. The US State Department had said Raymond cannot be arrested as he was working with the American Consulate. > > “As it was later revealed, he was not even a consular employee but a contractor employed by the CIA! It is strange that Americans then argued that he had immunity while now asserting that the Indian Deputy Consul General does not have such immunity. Or, does the Vienna Convention have to interpreted in one way for Americans and in another way for Indians?” a former diplomat questioned. > > Diplomats of several countries bring domestic servants from their respective countries and pay them more or less what Indian diplomats pay, but only Indians have been targeted, another official remarked. > > Read more: [UK Home | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome...g-Indians.html) The Maid is just some greedy woman who has been used by some assortment of NGOs in connivance with the DA and the State Dept to humiliate India. India needs to mete out the same treatment to a similar senior US consular officer. Btw Bharara’s language in his statement on this case indicates his active involvement in orchestrating this disgusting episode. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/95 "2013-12-18T13:39:57Z")
Maid’s family given US visas just before diplomat’s arrest > [@](#): > > Making the controversy over the arrest and maltreatment of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobargarde murkier, it has now emerged that the husband and two children of the absconding maid had obtained US visas and flown to New York > **[India reworking system of sending Indian domestic helps to missions](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-reworking-system-of-sending-indian-domestic-helps-to-missions/article5474135.ece)** > > India News:India reworking system of sending Indian domestic helps to missions ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/96 "2013-12-18T13:49:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Don’t do this shit. Your English is shaky enough, when you start writing in abbreviations and L33T crap it becomes incomprehensible. Sorry about bad English and being incomprehensible. I meant that apart from the salary, the maid also got free food, dwelling and various other things. The merits of the case aside, this is A. Not a grave offense B. Arresting, handcuffing in public and strip searching is not respectable treatment. Please read points 2 and 3 of article 41 of Vienna Convention on consular relations which is applicable in this case. Please read [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16939355&postcount=64). But still, if thats US’s interpretation of that, we(Indians) should give them our own interpretation of article 41, acting in a way which may upset the US. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/97 "2013-12-18T13:56:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m not sure what wages the US requires for live in domestic help. Free room & board is a substantial benefit in NY. Requiring someone to pay minimum wage wouldn’t make sense. This should be covered in the law. Waitresses aren’t paid minimum wage because they earn tips. Salesman get paid very little because they earn sales commissions. > > Or I guess they could pay minimum wage and deduct $750 a month for room & board. A bargain for a room in a luxury NY townhouse with free utilities and food. My (rough) understanding is that you can pay employees with room and board, but you have to first calculate the proper wage and then you can deduct the fair market value of the benefits. Another issue, however, is the room and board have to be considered for the employee’s benefit to count as “income” (the reverse situation often comes where an employee tries to claim that an in-kind benefit is _not_ income, because it was for the employers benefit, and thus reduce his tax liability). If, for example, the maid was expected to eat meals with the children or be available to respond to them in the middle of the night, I’m not sure those benefits count as wages. If they simply set her up in her own apartment and left her alone, then they could deduct the market value of the rent from her pay. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve been confused about this case too. Grave Crime would be something violent like murder, rape, or at least a serious physical assault. Maybe even a DUI where somebody was injured or died. Right or wrong, “grave crime” has consistently be interpreted to be a felony offense. (Apparently, [in Australia](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/cpaia1972366/s5.html), it’s been defined as a crime punishable by more than 5 years). It seems clear to me that visa fraud constitutes a “grave crime” under the convention. > [@truthSeeker2](#): > > shocking that people are defending this act by the US I sort of understand the complaint that the US has a particularly public and humiliating approach to arresting people (although the notion that it should be different for women or rich people offends me). The strip search complaint seems unpersuasive (of course you’re going to search people in custody), but I get the objection to public arrests and the “perp walk.” But to the extent that the complaint is that exploitation and fraud are such integral parts of Indian culture (remind me never to do business with an Indian) that it is somehow offensive to enforce those laws against an Indian in the United States is absurd, it just baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/98 "2013-12-18T13:59:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Waitresses aren’t paid minimum wage because they earn tips. > > Incorrect. There is a _separate_ minimum wage for people expected to get regular tips. Also, that plus tips is supposed to be at least standard minimum wage and if it isn’t the employer is supposed to make up the difference. Absolutely right, and it bears repeating. Wait staff is entitled to earn minimum wage. The employer does not have to _initially_ pay minimum wage, because the theory is that the tips earned will more than cover the difference between the minimum wage and what the employer actually pays. BUT – if the wait person’s tips in a given pay period, when added to the base pay provided by the employer, do not amount to minimum wage, the employer must supplement the wages in order to achieve the minimum wage mark. The remark which **Broomstick** refuted was utterly ignorant, and it’s a mistake I see a lot, even on this “fighting ignorance” board. **Broomstick** is absolutely correct. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/99 "2013-12-18T14:03:07Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Before spearheading the arrest proceedings in Devyani’s case, Bharara had hit the headlines for prosecuting former McKinsey MD Rajat Gupta for insider trading charges. […] Significantly, the US has given asylum to countless pro-Khalistanis. It may be mentioned that American courts have been admitting law suits filed by pro-Khalistani groups against Indian leaders. […] The Maid is just some greedy woman who has been used by some assortment of NGOs in connivance with the DA and the State Dept to humiliate India. This sounds an awful lot like a pile of irrelevant nonsense: Sikhs are persecuting Indians, and let’s list every time one of the busiest prosecutors in the U.S. has prosecuted an Indian? Obviously this Indian-American prosecutor hates Indians. None of this has any bearing on the merits of the case. > [@truthSeeker2](#): > > maid’s food, stay n other diff expenses were covered apart frm the salary she gets. If so, that should be easy to establish. Why was 90% of her compensation being handled this way? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591/100 "2013-12-18T14:06:37Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Sorry about bad English and being incomprehensible. I meant that apart from the salary, the maid also got free food, dwelling and various other things. The merits of the case aside, this is > A. Not a grave offense > B. Arresting, handcuffing in public and strip searching is not respectable treatment. > > Please read points 2 and 3 of article 41 of Vienna Convention on consular relations which is applicable in this case. Please read [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16939355&postcount=64). > > But still, if thats US’s interpretation of that, we(Indians) should give them our own interpretation of article 41, acting in a way which may upset the US. And so your concern about what “grave crime” means is leading to you suggest that an American official be arrested for trumped-up reasons. Your commitment to the rule of law appears to be paper-thin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-authorities-strip-search-indian-diplomat-female/676591.md?page=6)