Maybe in Bizarro universe I am. If a diplomatic passport is granted to somebody, and then they want to stop being a diplomat, will their passport not be revoked? Is coercion involved in this situation? The woman accepted a job offer, and was given a passport on that basis. If she wants to quit that job, she has to lose the passport. Do you say people are being coerced into keeping jobs because when they lose the job they lose the company car that comes with it?
Thank you for understanding my position. Fuck me but it feels like I’ve been banging my head into the keyboard and not typing out sentences that mean something.
She was given the ‘official’ passport under the agreement that she would work for the consular official. I believe she has been charged under the section for ‘cheating’. I’m not sure exactly why but I believe it’s because she reneged on her agreement by going missing for an extended period of time and then demanding money and a regular passport.
It does not appear to me that her official passport was in the custody of her employer. That has been alleged certainly, but the only thing that seems to be agreed upon is that the woman disappeared. Quitting would likely not make her ineligible for a new passport, although it’s doubtful that a new one would be issued in New York. Quitting would require that her official passport be revoked. I’m certain there would be a provision for a window in which cases where someone with an official passport wants to quit or is fired can return to India. After that window, or if she just goes missing, I presume the passport would be revoked and the US authorities notified. Which I think in this case they were.
You are arguing uphill here if you expect the observation that minimum wage laws lead to job shortages, and a surplus of labor, to get much traction. This isn’t to say that Khobagrade’s a good guy, far from it. If the allegations are true then she’s violated American labor law, lied on a government form and, if she had to swear in front of a magistrate that the information was true, perjury. Those aren’t good things. If the treatment of domestic help by diplomatic and consular legations is an issue of immediate concern to the Obama Administration, and the legation hasn’t changed their behavior when put on notice, then by all means make Khobagrade PNG. And tell people why you’re doing it.
What you don’t do, is arrest in front of their kid’s school, a deputy consul general, a representative of a sovereign nation, like you were arresting someone on an outstanding dope warrant. (Jesus, they couldn’t have negotiated a surrender down at one of the Federal buildings in Manhattan?) Because those actions will shock most of the world that cares—“You strip searched a consular official over a labor law form?!”—and will have repercussions on your own diplomatic staff. It looks like Amateur Night, and I’m frankly baffled why the Obama Administration chose to handle it in this manner.
Here is a link to an Indian newspaper article that talks about two narratives
From the link above, the maid was “missing” on June 23 2012. A person claiming to be her lawyer called and spoke with Khobargade on July 1 and asked among other things, for a regular passport. The demand for regular passport was repeated one week later when the maid met Khobargade.
Per the second link below, per Indian law, an Indian citizen is entitled to a regular passport as a fundamental right.
Indian passport - Wikipedia (types of Indian passport)
I’m not really arguing this, although I do believe it, but yes I’m getting the feeling that political leanings are defining how people respond to this situation.
I agree with all of this.
It’s a fundamental right, but that doesn’t mean all you have to do is demand and you shall receive, particularly not when she’s just finished flouting the conditions for her official passport. She wants a regular Indian passport, she is perfectly welcome to get it the way every regular Indian gets it - in India, after going through the regular application procedure. It isn’t even handled by the ministry of external affairs. After that, she is perfectly welcome to apply to the American embassy for a visa on her own merits, like every other Indian, without piggybacking on the Indian foreign services to first get there and then accusing them of abuse to get visas for herself and her family.
Quitting her job merely means she loses her right to S category passport.
How does losing her right to S category passport make her ineligible for a P (ordinary) category passport?
I am a regular Indian living in Illinois. I renew my ordinary passport at Chicago office of the Indian Consulate. Does Indian law require anyone applying for a new passport to do so in India?
Abuse of American law is established.
It is entirely up to the American authorities to decide, per American law, what she needs to do to stay in the US.
When have I said it makes her ineligible? I said ‘ask and ye shall receive’ is not valid.
I’m willing to bet that it is not regular procedure for any country to issue a completely new passport at a consulate. Replacements and renewals sure. But a completely new passport?
Eh? How does this respond to what I said? I was talking about the maid, you seem to be referring to the employer
If her S category passport is revoked, and the consulate/embassy won’t issue her a new P category passport, how is she supposed to get back home? The reason issuing a new passport at an embassy rarely comes up is because most people can’t leave their home country without obtaining a passport in the first place.
Just issue her a new passport already. Issuing passports is one of the things embassies do. Then it becomes the U.S.'s problem on what to do with her, given she doesn’t have a reason to be in the country anymore with her employment terminated. Screwing around with bureaucratic excuses looks bad for the Indian government. And her story has the potential of making one of their representatives look really bad indeed.
You have already acknowledged P category passport is a fundamental right. Ask for fundamental right, and is not valid, makes sense only if there is some special ineligibility condition that the maid does not meet.
Why not, when it is a fundamental right? What wrong had the maid done to make her ineligible?
You pointed to a welcoming path - I pointed to another path that she is equally welcome to.
For one, I don’t think her passport has been revoked yet.
In the hypothetical that I addressed earlier, had she quit formally, it would have been revoked, but I’m sure there would be a provision that allows her to return using that passport. After that, she can go ahead and apply for a regular passport like any regular Indian.
Also, I don’t think embassies issue new passports to someone who doesn’t have a passport. They issue renewals or replacement passports. Which they wouldn’t need to do in this case.
If you’re an Indian with an Indian passport, surely you remember that there was an application procedure that you had to go through? A verification of your address and the details that you included on your application form? She wants a regular passport, she should go through the regular procedure.
She doesn’t have a regular passport that can be renewed or replaced. If her official passport is revoked, the identity papers under which she passed out of India have been withdrawn. If she wants new identity papers, she should get them in India.
Can you please be clearer?
You type perfectly well, and your meaning is clear, but good diction and eloquence doesn’t guarantee that you are convincing.
To be perfectly direct, the dispute between you and I isn’t about communication, it’s about values. (I’m not trying to be smug, I honestly think we’re looking at this from totally different perspectives.) I fully understand your point that you think the maid did comparatively better for herself with this job. Just because you phrase that clearly does not mean I agree with it at all: as I said, I think the case you laid out on how the contract came to be actually supports the contention that the maid was indeed being mistreated by a powerful person.
If you understand my meaning and disagree, that’s fine. If you don’t understand how I come to that conclusion, I’m happy to try to rephrase it.
Good point. She was placed in the situation of applying to the same elite Indian officialdom that underpaid her (per American law).
Govt of India has a lot of yolk and yellow on its face. They have called the maid “absconding” when it was merely 2 weeks after she quit. Even if she went some place and sent a note by snail mail, 2 weeks would be normal.
And the elite (within India) Indian bureaucracy went into overdrive and got got compliant courts in India to issue sundry injunctions and warrants meanwhile. the problem is that they thought they are elite even in America. Good Lesson!
Yes, when I initially applied for a passport, I did in India. I have done fresh passports at Chicago. I understand the maid is asking for a different category of passport. She has an American address, just as I have one. What is the legal impediment? Procedural impediment? Procedural impediment given the love that the elite Indian babu(bureaucracy)dom has for her?
Her new identity papers are American. Why is that an impediment? I have none that are Indian, except my Indian passport.
While you have been generous in pointing out a welcoming path for the maid, that is not the only legal and viable option the maid has.
I don’t think it. It is cold hard fact that she did comparatively better for herself with this job. If you disagree, please do lay out why you think that she did not.
Yeah, I don’t think you and I are communicating on the same plane mate.
Again, I’m saying it is irrelevant.
I do agree that it is irrelevant to the prosecution of the consul officer.
ETA: REalise you may mean to the mistreatment. Please lay out your case for the mistreatment if so