# U.S. cities and timezones/ state borders. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 4, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334 "2014-04-04T12:40:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/61 "2014-04-07T11:15:54Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > One of our campus security officers was an asshole and reported it the first day of school even though I had moved there less than a week previously despite the statutory definition of a resident being someone who lived in Arizona for 6 months. If you moved there a week earlier, then you weren’t commuting in on a daily basis and did meet the definition of a [resident](http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/driver-services/NewtoAZ/resident-definition) It’s like I mentioned about the other state- six months to become a resident unless you get a job, enroll kids in school, etc. And there’s a special nonresident daily commuter [decal](http://www.azdot.gov/docs/mvd-forms-pubs/40-7807.pdf?sfvrsn=0) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/62 "2014-04-07T11:43:03Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And there’s a special nonresident daily commuter [decal](http://www.azdot.gov/docs/mvd-forms-pubs/40-7807.pdf?sfvrsn=0) And non-residents have to work within 35 miles of the border to get the privilege of driving to their jobs? Wow. Do people who work more than 35 miles from the state line just have to get two plates, like trucks did before they came up with apportioned plates? Although I guess it’s not very likely. Arizona doesn’t seem to have many cities that are more than 35 miles from the state line but also within commuting distance of another state. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/63 "2014-04-07T12:33:59Z")
For what it is worth, years and years ago, I worked for a drill company headquartered in Phoenix. Since we had trucks that were used in Nevada, California, Arizona and New Mexico at various times of the year handling the DMV paperwork was a complete nightmare. We had a full time employee who did nothing but track time in the various states. This was especially bitter between Arizona and California, both of which acted as complete jerks. The way this is typically handled is using apportioned plates. Nonetheless, we would still have trouble because California Highway Patrol would be pissy that we had ARIZONA Apportioned plates rather than California. It was a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/64 "2014-04-07T12:47:00Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > If states can create powerful port authorities by compact ratified by Congress, why couldn’t they create joint municipalities by the same method? None _have_, but is it actually totally impossible if you assume no political resistance? I interned for a city’s legal department when I was in law school, so I’ve done a decent amount of reading on how at least one state grants power to local authorities (it’s a actually a substantial amount of statutory and case law). Based on my recollection (I’m not a practcing attorney), I see no reason why it isn’t possible. It would be extraordinarily difficult, and depending on what states we’re talking about, it might require amendments to one or both state’s constitutions, but it could be done via a series of statutes and statutory amendments along with some (very complex, very long) contracts. I doubt that there would be any need to involve the federal government. It would be pointless and unnecessarily complex, but it would be fun (and lucrative) if you were the legal counsel. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/65 "2014-04-07T13:12:11Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > If you moved there a week earlier, then you weren’t commuting in on a daily basis and did meet the definition of a [resident](http://www.azdot.gov/mvd/driver-services/NewtoAZ/resident-definition) It’s like I mentioned about the other state- six months to become a resident unless you get a job, enroll kids in school, etc. And there’s a special nonresident daily commuter [decal](http://www.azdot.gov/docs/mvd-forms-pubs/40-7807.pdf?sfvrsn=0) But even buy your own links, Arizona considers me a resident if I work in Arizona no matter where I actually live which is what DMV told me a few years ago. Plus the commuter tag is only valid 35 miles from the border. Suppose my job needs me to run to Flagstaff or Tucson or Phoenix? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/66 "2014-04-07T13:57:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Incorrect. Alaska and Hawaii provide two additional ones. That’s true, but my puzzle was pretty clearly about the lower 48. I wonder if he was making the “off-by-one” error of thinking that four time zones = four hours difference. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/67 "2014-04-07T14:17:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But even buy your own links, Arizona considers me a resident if I work in Arizona no matter where I actually live which is what DMV told me a few years ago. Plus the commuter tag is only valid 35 miles from the border. Suppose my job needs me to run to Flagstaff or Tucson or Phoenix? I understand that you were told that, and I also understand that state employees sometimes give you the answer that will make you go away rather than the technically correct answer. You might have gotten a different answer if you asked without first discussing a ticket you received a week after moving into the state, as both living and working in the state clearly makes you a resident regardless of the answer to your hypothetical. Plus a non-resident commuter tag wouldn’t exist if working in Arizona and living in Nevada made you a resident- there would by definition be no such thing as a non-resident commuter. See the actual statute [Arizona Legislature](http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/02001.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS) paragraph 2 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/68 "2014-04-07T23:08:27Z")
Thanks for the replies, everyone. Some very interesting information here. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/69 "2014-04-08T00:36:15Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > I interned for a city’s legal department when I was in law school, so I’ve done a decent amount of reading on how at least one state grants power to local authorities (it’s a actually a substantial amount of statutory and case law). Based on my recollection (I’m not a practcing attorney), I see no reason why it isn’t possible. It would be extraordinarily difficult, and depending on what states we’re talking about, it might require amendments to one or both state’s constitutions, but it could be done via a series of statutes and statutory amendments along with some (very complex, very long) contracts. I doubt that there would be any need to involve the federal government. It would be pointless and unnecessarily complex, but it would be fun (and lucrative) if you were the legal counsel. The Constitution (Article I, Section 10, Paragraph 3) prohibits states from entering into compacts with each other without the consent of Congress. Since AFAIK the Port Authority and similar agencies are created pursuant to interstate compacts, it would follow that Congressional authorization would be necessary to form an interstate municipality. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/70 "2014-04-08T14:28:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Here’s a question that I’ve been curious about. Many (Most? All?) states require you to register your car in their state if you live there. There are also states that require you to register your car if you work in the state (Arizona is one). What happens if you live in one state and work in another and are required to register your car in both? I don’t know the answer, but I can make the question more complicated: About 20 years ago when I lived in Connecticut, the DMV noted a rules change to cater to customers with an odd, but increasingly common, problem: many states require you to be a resident of that state to register a car, and feel if you don’t reside there you should register your car where you do reside. Many states require an annual inspection of one sort or another . Some people maintain vacation homes in a state they don’t reside in, and keep cars at those homes. So how to you get inspections for a car that has never been in the state. So the Connecticut DMV could waive the emissions inspection requirement if your car was kept out-of-state, with the note that if you ever did bring the car to Connecticut it would need an emissions inspection _immediately_ or the registration was invalid. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/71 "2014-04-08T14:35:06Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I understand that you were told that, and I also understand that state employees sometimes give you the answer that will make you go away rather than the technically correct answer. You might have gotten a different answer if you asked without first discussing a ticket you received a week after moving into the state, as both living and working in the state clearly makes you a resident regardless of the answer to your hypothetical. Plus a non-resident commuter tag wouldn’t exist if working in Arizona and living in Nevada made you a resident- there would by definition be no such thing as a non-resident commuter. > > See the actual statute [Arizona Legislature](http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/02001.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS) paragraph 2 Or it is possible the law was changed after I moved but even so, what if I don’t meet the requirements of 2(a)? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/72 "2014-04-08T14:35:12Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > The Constitution (Article I, Section 10, Paragraph 3) prohibits states from entering into compacts with each other without the consent of Congress. Since AFAIK the Port Authority and similar agencies are created pursuant to interstate compacts, it would follow that Congressional authorization would be necessary to form an interstate municipality. Ignorance fought. Wiki has a nice list of some of those compacts: > **[Interstate compact](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_compact)** > > In the United States, an interstate compact is a pact or agreement between two or more states, or between states and any foreign sub-national government. > Most early interstate compacts resolved boundary disputes, but since the early 20th century, compacts have increasingly been used as a tool of state cooperation and mutual recognition on infrastructure, services and professional licensing, often to ease administrative barriers and reduce costs and litigation. In some cases, an agreement will c... ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/73 "2014-04-08T14:49:31Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > As it happens, I live in part of unincorporated Lake County, Indiana. (snip) This sounds pretty much exactly like life where I grew up: Mansfield, Connecticut, Incorporated 1702. No street lights (well, some intersections have a single light above them), no trash collection - hire a truck or drive your cans to the dump, no water or sewer - you’ll need a well and septic system, and storm drainage means the occasional culvert to let water pass under the road in its quest to join a river. We did have two police officers, but neighboring towns had none, and policing was handled by the State Police. People putting their trash in other people’s cans wasn’t a big issue, mostly because nobody put their cans near the road, and coming a couple of hundred feet up a driveway with malicious intent is a whole lot more like criminal trespassing than most folks are comfortable with. As far as I know, there is no place in Connecticut that isn’t inside of an incorporated town, in contrast to, say, New York where there are townlike communities where the only official local government is at the county level. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334/74 "2014-04-08T15:09:48Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > There are FOUR time zones in the US, so I don’t see how your puzzle could possibly be correct. I’ll try to explain it more clearly: Follow: Most of Florida is on Eastern Time, but a small part is on Central. Most of Oregon is on Pacific time, but a small part of Oregon is on Mountain. Those two parts, despite being coasts apart, are in adjacent time zones, and only an hour apart. Daylight Savings starts and ends at 2am. So when daylight savings “falls back” in the fall, at 2am Eastern time it becomes 1am Eastern time. At that time it is also 1am **Central** time. An hour later, Central time “falls back”, and an hour after that Mountain, and so forth. So for one hour each year, each time zone is at the same time as the one west of it. During that hour, it is the same time in Central and Mountain, and so the same time in Eastern Oregon and Western Florida. Did that help? Oh, and I count **6** time zones in the US: Eastern, Central, Mountain, Pacific, Alaska, & Hawaii. And apparently Hawaii doesn’t do Daylight Savings, meaning it is an extra hour earlier there right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-cities-and-timezones-state-borders/685334.md?page=3)