Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. But now the rascals in charge are my rascals! 
:rolleyes:
As for myself, I’m mildly pessimistic, in the sense that our financial problems are nowhere near worked out, and it’s going to be a nightmare working them out. But in relative terms I’m mildly optimistic, in the sense that just about every comparable nation is going through the same things, or worse. I don’t at all think we’re sliding into “fascism.” I think it was Thomas Wolfe who said that the dark night of fascism is perpetually falling on America but landing in Europe.
Really, the “divisiveness” everyone gets so upset about actually seems to me a sign of a vigorous (if insanely maddening) civic health. Yes, as a nation we argue, but at least we are arguing about important things, which is way more than many comparable nations can say. I’ve lived overseas, and the complacency and thoughtless acceptance of government policy is surprising, from an American perspective.
Would I emigrate? Yes. But not because I think the US is devolving into a fascist hellhole; there are just some countries that I all around prefer to the US.
That’s not how it appears from this side of the Atlantic. More like wilful obstructionism where the important thing is not to provide a solution to a problem but simply to stop, at all costs, the other guys from implementing their solution.
As a great mind once said: “Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.”
Short term - all is well.
Long term - not so sure…mostly because of the disparity between the super rich and the super poor and a dwindling middle-class. This doesn’t bode well.
Also - as a teacher - I am more than a bit concerned with the appalling lack of basic knowledge and skills that many high school graduates have. Of course there are many exceptions, but on the whole - we have a huge group of functioning idiots graduating from high schools today. Not entirely their fault - but we had better up the ante with education sooner than later.
But again - short term, things are going pretty great right now!
But I do see many pitfalls that could cause some serious issues in 10, 20 and 30 years…but by then, I will be more concerned with eating my oatmeal and not slobbering.
Take away the doom predicted by the media on an increasingly shrill and less-believable basis, and there is nothing to be scared of. There’s no reason to suspect that the US will stop chugging. My life and family are better off than ever before, and will remain that way short of an unpredictable cataclysmic event (meteor, volcano, unemployment, zombies).
Yeah, I really don’t see what passes as discourse in the US as being a sign of civic health. I think it’s pretty clear that we are devolving into two different cultures with two very different ideas of what it means to be an American. There’s no excange of ideas, rather there is a desperate attempt to stop anything the president is for from happening, even things that originated as GOP plans.
The GOP doesn’t like Obama, therefore the USA is doomed.
Do you feel the discourse in the US would be improved if one side didn’t call the other a hate group, or a terrorist group?
Regards,
Shodan
Well, I feel that discourse would improve if one side didn’t act like a terrorist group. At this point, though, I don’t think there’s much hope of coming back from the edge. Within hours of the the supreme court dismantling parts of the voting rights act, the GOP in Texas got to work reconstructing the Jim Crow south. Like I said, I believe we are moving apart culturally and I don’t think there’s much hope in reconciling and at this point our values are so different that I don’t see much point in trying.
Regards,
Madmonk28
Strongly optimistic. Other countries love to gripe about the big kid on the block, but in their heart of hearts they know the United States will continue to be a force for good and to lead the world by example. Yes, the political divide is grim, and can even appear unsurmountable if you’re not looking at the big picture— what we’re seeing are essentially the last growing pains of a young nation ready to enter maturity. When it comes down to it, despite our superficial differences, we all basically want the same things. We’re becoming more unified rather than more fractured, and as a nation, we’re finally beginning to realize that conflict is a dead end and cooperation is the way of the future. A rising tide lifts all boats, as they say. Technology is advancing so quickly that a lot of the problems that today seem so dire— diminishing energy resources, poverty, crime, disease, hunger, failing education, unemployment, terrorism— will fade away so quickly and thoroughly that many of us will have a devil of a time explaining to our grandkids what all the fuss was about.
Just kidding. We’re boned.
I really think that if you were to ask the average Iraqi whether in their heart of hearts if the US was a force of good, you might be dismayed at the answer. What you see as the growing pains of a young nation ready to enter maturity, I see as the bellowing of a besotted bully who’s about to get what’s coming to him.
Of course, nobody says that. It isn’t that the GOP doesn’t like Obama, it’s that it exploits on the latent racism in the US so that every Obama proposal is Armageddon and every appointment must be filibustered. They may hate Hillary just as much, but they aren’t going to resort to race-baiting to try and undermine her presidency. They’ll just go back to their other mainstay, misogyny.
You don’t do anyone any favors by refusing to call out a terrorist hate group for what they are.
One of the things that gives me optimism is that I don’t think the average voter in the US is batshit crazy. And therefore the positions of the extreme left, as laid out by some in this thread, aren’t going to appeal to him or her.
Seriously - don’t you guys recognize that you have gone off the edge? Maybe you do, and this is just hyperbole. But maybe not. And therefore the GOP and the center don’t need to change anything - just sit still and watch the Dems turn every time they don’t get what they want as an opportunity to throw a tantrum.
Regards,
Shodan
Don’t you recognize that the GOP has lost two presidential elections in a row and unless it can find a way to restrain the racism running deep through the party, America’s demographics will keep you out of national office for the next eight years?
Toodle loo,
Madmonk28
Mildly optimistic. At some point people are going to wake up and see that Detroit and Greece are the end result of thinking that you can tax and spend your way to prosperity. Also the Democrat party has used the race card so often it is starting to lose its effectiveness. Once calling your opponents racist loses its effectiveness they will have to come up with some actual ideas to fix the problems facing the country. That is probably wildly naive, but I think optimism is just ingrained into the American character.
58.1% of people 56 to 89 identify as Protestant while only 29.5% of those 18 to 30 do.
I was just using Catholic numbers as a point of comparison and I’m concerned naturally as a Protestant.
I remain pessimistically optimistic about the country. If the far right gains control, it will be short-lived, as their draconian approach to government will result in their ouster withing two election cycles. I’ve lived in five other countries (2-3 years in each) and visited a whole lot more; no thanks to emigration, even to Canada. Leaving fixes nothing; it only removes one more voice of reason.
The US is like a nine year old superhuman boy with a bazooka. We just can’t help but pull the trigger because, it’s FUCKIN’ BAZOOKA! We fuck up massively and our problems are overwhelmingly our own creation but we survive the blast.
But we have a saving grace. We can survive just about anything and we have an uncanny ability to grow and change as a society. Gay rights, a black president, and universal healthcare would have been inconceivable not too long ago.
I understand many people don’t like “Obamacare” but keep in mind this is just the first go. We’ll tweak it along the way with alterations from both Republican and Democratic led presidencies and bit by bit we’ll get to something that while far from perfect is workable.
I understand some people don’t like the idea of gay marriage, but people opposed interracial marriage and now as a country I truly believe we are stronger for it. Multicultural family ties emphasize what is common and good in all of us. Our isolation is what hurts us.
I understand that many people do not like the current presidency, but frankly it’s simply a matter of time before the Republicans retake the presidency and so the pendulum swings. It sways from side to side but on the average it finds the middle.
We are not perfect, we are deeply flawed. We can however aspire to change and we have proven we can achieve it.
As I said, I doubt that this kind of hysterical exaggeration resonates with real people.
You live, IIRC, in Washington DC. You need to get out into the real world once in a while.
Regards,
Shodan
But you said that the voters would sort out the crazy and they rejected the GOP at the national level twice in a row. Also, why isn’t DC the real world?
Remember the Alamo,
Madmonk28
“The End”?