# U.S. democracy: Canceled by popular demand? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [July 1, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599 "2024-07-01T20:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/41 "2024-07-02T20:13:31Z")
He got MAGAs to believe that the 2020 election was stolen, in order to impose a dictatorial regime and implement voter suppression and further gerrymandering laws. He got them to believe that “lawlessness is beyond terrible,” and that the top law enforcement agencies in the US are corrupt, in order to become an autocrat and turn the military loose in our country. He got them to believe in the “Deep State” and the “Swamp” in order to pack the three branches of government with inept but loyal toadies and henchmen (yeah: probably almost all men). > Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. –Voltaire Now, Trump’s doing it with his trials and the GOP is doing it with the vote. MAGAs should learn how to read about and understand complex subjects, and how to ask good questions\* Then, they should DO just that. MAGAs need to stop making it so easy for cynical demagogues to lie to them. \* I’m sure that Oklahoma and Louisiana are at the vanguard, what with requiring the teaching/display of the Bible/Ten Commandments and all. /s ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/42 "2024-07-02T20:33:27Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > It’s not just in the U.S., it’s all over the world. Yep. Right wing populism is … well…_popular_ among the less educated, etc. They want a quick and easy 'fix" to what they see as society’s ills. Often one of those “fixes” is blaming some minority- used to be the jews of course, but now it is dark skinned migrants. RW Populism can and has led to Fascism- Mussolini, Hitler, and even today- Putin. But Netanyahu, Modi, and Milei are current RW populists in power- but there are others. There was Boris Johnson, etc and of course trump. > [@DavidNRockies](#): > > “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.” Nice quote. The problem with RW Populism is of course those big promises never come to pass- and then the RW populist is voted out- trump for example. Bolsonaro is another. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > The democratic party is incredibly, unbelievably inept. Schrodinger’s DNC- at once so powerful it can fix elections and decide who is the candidate- and also so inept it cant do anything. of course- neither is true. I predict that trump will go down in flames then die- ending that phase of American politics for a while. Of course it will come back, it always does. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/43 "2024-07-02T22:35:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > To reply to the OP: Another point is that many people who call for a tyranny are convinced that the _other_ side is **already** enacting a tyranny. There’s a reason many Trumpers call Biden a dictator and feed off of that energy. Well, yes, Republicans are liars. That’s not news. Is there any actual evidence that Joe Biden (or any other Democrat in office) is taking any steps towards establishing a dictatorship? Or even talking about doing so? Let’s not overreact to Republicans being silly. > [@Velocity](#): > > If there’s going to be a dictatorship no matter what, then at least you’d be better off if it is YOUR dictatorship, not the opposing side’s, right? It’s a matter of survival at that point. By the same logic, if my next door neighbor is going to kill me, I’d be better off killing him first. But that train of logic breaks down as soon as you realize my next door neighbor has shown no signs that he is planning on killing me. So me killing him is not justified. I’m not saying there’s no danger. It’s clear that there are more than a few Republicans (including Trump) who are thinking about dictatorship and wouldn’t mind heading in the direction. But it’s way too early to be arming ourselves for the resistance or to declare Taylor Swift Queen of America. Right now, let’s focus on what’s been working. Let’s defeat Donald Trump the way we defeated him last time - by holding an election and voting against him. If that doesn’t work, then we can talk about revolution. Let’s not lose sight of who the enemy is here. Donald Trump. He’s not Lenin or Hitler. He’s not even Mussolini. He’s a lazy moron. And his followers? These are people so dumb, they’re following Donald Trump. These idiots tried to overthrow the government once already and they failed. We just rounded them up and arrested them. We’ll do that again the next time they try it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/44 "2024-07-02T22:39:48Z")
That was the premise in 2016, but that’s not what the data suggests. Trump’s support isn’t about the economy, and never was. It’s about culture and race and religion. Quite famously, Nate Silver said in 2016 that by far the single best statistical correlate for Trump support was Google searches for the N-word. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/45 "2024-07-02T23:39:08Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > A lot of this is a great rage felt among a large part of the working class population. That rage has been building, and suddenly for the first time, someone with a tremendous presence and now power is acting as their voice. > > And that rage is NOT entirely unfounded. The rust belt cities have been decimated. In 1955 you could drop out of High School and get a union job at the factory and make enough to buy a house and raise a family. There are no more good jobs for a strong back and a weak mind. > > Wealth inequality is just insane. And everyone likes to talk about the 1%, but really it’s the 10%. How many of you reading this have seen their wealth explode over the last 10 years, thanks to buybacks, loose monetary policy, etc? How many of those strong back workers even hold any equities? > > The world has changed, and if you’re in one group you’ve done exceptionally well. Thank you, China, for the $300 flat panel TV (ever notice that the 19 inch Hitachi color TV we got in the 80s was ALSO $300?). Work from home? Don’t mind if I do! That house I bought in the suburbs of Boston years ago? Mmm Mmm Equity. If you’re in this group, globalization has not only made your job prospects easier, it’s made you vastly richer if for no other reason than how cheap most things are. > > If you’re in the other group\* you no longer have a union job making televisions, and now you’re working at the warehouse. You tried working from home, but that just got you fired. Your kids will never be able to buy a house unless they can get a degree (that you can’t pay for) and probably move away. And never mind about little Ben. He’s a sweet kid, but he’ll be lucky to get through High School. Don’t know what he’s going to do. And when I turn on that $300 flat panel TV all I see are rich coastal elites who think I’m an asshole. > > I’m by no means defending it. I think you all know I’m not voting Republican. But what I wrote is very real, and it explains a great deal of the anger. This isn’t working for them, and after 40 years they’ll try anything. And you might too. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That was the premise in 2016, but that’s not what the data suggests. Trump’s support isn’t about the economy, and never was. It’s about culture and race and religion. Quite famously, Nate Silver said in 2016 that by far the single best statistical correlate for Trump support was Google searches for the N-word. I think racism is a factor in what OldOlds described. I’m not a communist or a socialist. But our political system has gone too far towards the other extreme and it’s not designed to make billionaires richer. And what’s even worse is it’s designed to make billionaires who inherited their wealth richer. You no longer need to create wealth to be rich; you just have to be the grandchild of somebody who created wealth (like Donald Trump is). The result of this is everyone else is fighting over a shrinking share of the pie. And the majority of us are feeling it. To divert us from the real problem, billionaires need to misdirect attention away from themselves. So they tell working class white people that their problem is black people and immigrants who want to take what they have. People like Donald Trump are riding to power as a reaction to problems that were caused by people like Donald Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/46 "2024-07-03T03:22:29Z")
I just noticed a typo in my previous post. I normally don’t worry about these but this one reverses the meaning of what I was trying to say. I posted: But our political system has gone too far towards the other extreme and it’s _not_ designed to make billionaires richer. I meant: But our political system has gone too far towards the other extreme and it’s _now_ designed to make billionaires richer. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/47 "2024-07-03T17:48:58Z")
I’m a pessimist by nature, so here’s another thought that occurred to me. For those of you who might be tempted to reply “By what mechanism? How would that be legal?” let me prematurely answer by no legitimate mechanism and it wouldn’t be legal, but that doesn’t mean someone might not try it. How long before some state governors try the same argument? Governors need to be immune from prosecution for state crimes because they need to be free to make unpopular decisions and take bold action, yada yada bullshit. Don’t tell me DeSantis isn’t already thinking about this. Since it’s now precedent at the federal level, and Magats are all about states being more powerful or more legitimate than the feds, I’m more than half expecting him or Greg Abbott to come out with some kind of declaration (never mind a court decision) at the first opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/48 "2024-07-03T18:21:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Schrodinger’s DNC- at once so powerful it can fix elections and decide who is the candidate- and also so inept it cant do anything. of course- neither is true. What you’re describing is what the facists say. The enemy is both strong and weak. I have never said that the democratic party is strong, I have always contended that they are useless. They are staggeringly, unbelievably inept for one of two major political parties in the most powerful country in the world who should have access to our best and brightest and funding to the tune of billions of dollars a year. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/49 "2024-07-03T18:37:28Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > How long before some state governors try the same argument? Governors need to be immune from prosecution for state crimes because they need to be free to make unpopular decisions and take bold action, yada yada bullshit. I wondered something similar in another thread. All the arguments about the President also apply to a lot of other people. > [@How can Biden use the recent SCOTUS Immunity ruling to his benefit?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-biden-use-the-recent-scotus-immunity-ruling-to-his-benefit/1003589/45): > > But violating due process is itself a crime, for which he would be immune. It’s immunity all the way down. Now what I’m wondering: How far down does this immunity go? Others in the Executive Branch has duties they must carry out, and also have vested interests in not being prosecuted for “official acts” after they leave government service. Since their authority to act ultimately derives from the president who appointed them, should they also not have this immunity? If I’m, say, the Director o… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/50 "2024-07-03T19:05:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What you’re describing is what the facists say. The enemy is both strong and weak. I didnt know the BernieBros were fascists. It does not seem likely to me. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/51 "2024-07-03T19:14:30Z")
Of course political parties have the ability to influence their own internal primaries, they control the rules and the procedures. If the democrats rig their own primaries, that does not make them competent (I did say inept, so what’s the opposite of that? ept?), especially when it leads to them losing the general election that primary is for. That actually works more in favor of evidence of their incompetence. You’re trying hard to prove some sort of inconsistency, but saying “the democrats are a really incompetent political party and they influence their own internal primaries to their detriment” is not a position that’s conflicted. I have never in my entire life said that the democratic party was competent. There is no “Schrodinger’s DNC”. I won’t continue this hijack further. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599/52 "2024-07-03T19:29:19Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I have never in my entire life said that the democratic party was competent. There is no “Schrodinger’s DNC”. I won’t continue this hijack further. Yeah, because you were proven wrong- like because Biden is our president, not trump, and the Senate is controlled by the Dems, not the GOP. Nor is it a hijack, it goes along with the theme of the OP. I never said you said it- but many others did. The dems are no more incompetent than the GOP is. In fact as the RNC has just been turned into a trump tool, the RNC is now useless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-democracy-canceled-by-popular-demand/1003599.md?page=2)