# U.S. Fines Woman for Being 'Human Shield' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415 "2003-08-11T16:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/101 "2003-08-13T18:42:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stemba \* > \*\*Sailor, > > You ask why she isn’t being tried for treason…maybe because the only legal recourse for a ‘guilty’ verdict for treason is execution (which, btw, is what SHOULD happen…) and perhaps the US government doesn’t feel she deserves to die? . . . or aiding the enemies of the United States (Rosenbergs, y’all. They got the gas chamber at Sing Sing for passing secrets to our enemy, the Russian Federation…er…Soviet Union.) \*\* A few corrections. First of all, while you can get the death penalty for treason, it’s not the only legal recourse. Millard Gillars (“Axis Sally”), who made propaganda broadcasts for the Germans in WWII, for example, was conviced of treason and sentenced to 10-30 years in prison, along with a $10,000 fine. Other Americans were convicted of treason after WWII, and I don’t believe any of them were given the death penalty. Here’s what 18 USC 2381 says about treason and it’s penalties: > [@](#): > > Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. Secondly, the Rosenbergs were electocuted, which was the method of execution in New York at the time. The gas chamber has never, to the best of my knowledge, been used in New York State to execute prisoners. Thirdly, the Rosenbergs weren’t convicted of treason, but of conspiracy to commit espionage. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/102 "2003-08-13T18:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stemba \* > \*\*Sailor, > > You ask why she isn’t being tried for treason…maybe because the only legal recourse for a ‘guilty’ verdict for treason is execution (which, btw, is what SHOULD happen…) and perhaps the US government doesn’t feel she deserves to die? Maybe they’re trying to set an example without killing American citizens? > This actually draws back to the 1960’s and 1970’s, where every draft-dodging sonofabitch could have been tried under the UCMJ for ‘pulsilominious conduct intended to avoid hazardous duty,’ desertion, and (in the case of Ms. Jane Fonda, liberal bitch who, according to POW Col. John Fer, USAF, RET) trator who’s personal actions led to the deaths of six POW’s. > > And as far as treason not being treason, read Article III, Section 3 again. Treason consists in waging war against the US (not declairing war, but fighting one) or aiding the enemies of the United States (Rosenbergs, y’all. They got the gas chamber at Sing Sing for passing secrets to our enemy, the Russian Federation…er…Soviet Union.) \*\* The only sentence for treason is death? Where did you read that? Ant it is your opinion that she aided the enemies of the USA but then so did all the millions of Americans who have demonstrated against the war and I say that is BS. She did nothing which materially aided the Iraqi army. Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/103 "2003-08-13T18:55:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lawoot \* > \*\*What the hell does THAT word mean? I’ve looked in about 6 dictionaries (online) and I haven’t found it yet. \*\* I think the word he’s looking for is “pusillanimous”…cowardly. And I think he’s trying to quote the UCMJ’s definition of desertion. However, it doesn’t have the term “pusillanimous” in it…the part of the article he’s probably trying to quote, from article 85, states that someone has committed the crime of desertion if he: > [@](#): > > quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/104 "2003-08-13T19:04:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > **She did not place herself with civilians, she placed herself at a strategic oil refinery.** …And who do you suppose works in that refinery? Elves? Spending any money in Iraq gets you a $10K fine, or 12 years in prison… I, for one, can’t wait for the anouncement that the government will be charging all those hundreds if not thousands of reporters and other news-oriented people who flocked to the country before the war. At $10K a pop, it should raise a good deal of money. I’m sure the announcement was simply delayed by some little mix-up and should be coming out any time now. I mean, they wouldn’t be so hipocritical as to only charge people for their crimes because of something _else_ they did. Right? …I’m sure you can see what _I_ think of this decision… ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/105 "2003-08-13T19:13:56Z")
She was placed there to protect the workers and not the refinery? Gee, Saddam is more generous than I first thought… ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/106 "2003-08-13T19:30:41Z")
I read this article yesterday with outrage. This is, of course, one more of many, many examples of the current administration re-writing (or at least, bending) laws and using fear and guilt and accusations of treason to further its warmongering agenda. I am horrified and I hope the ACLU gets involved and gets this woman some counsel. She seems willing to go to prison for her “crime”. Another “no-brainer”, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/107 "2003-08-13T19:31:08Z")
Is there any evidence that the refinery was ever a strategic target in the first place? If a charge of treason was tenable, she would have been charged with it. I find the snuff-porn fantasies being expressed about killing this woman to be quite distasteful. > [@](#): > > quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service Sounds like a certain someone who deserted a certain unit for a year during Nam… ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/108 "2003-08-13T19:31:28Z")
\*Phoenix Dragon \* Reporters (and aid workers) have to get governmental permission to go to forbidden countries. That is why this lady is being prosecuted and the reporters aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415/109 "2003-08-13T19:42:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phoenix Dragon \* > \*\* > I, for one, can’t wait for the anouncement that the government will be charging all those hundreds if not thousands of reporters and other news-oriented people who flocked to the country before the war. At $10K a pop, it should raise a good deal of money. I’m sure the announcement was simply delayed by some little mix-up and should be coming out any time now. \*\* Except, Executive Order 12724 exempts journalists associated with a news gathering organization from the travel ban [http://www.treas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/legal/eo/12724.pdf](http://www.treas.gov/offices/eotffc/ofac/legal/eo/12724.pdf) Spending money in Iraq doesn’t make you liable to a $10k fine or 12 years in prison. However, violating travel bans and unauthorized trading can. If she had gone over as a tourist, she would be just as liable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-fines-woman-for-being-human-shield/194415.md?page=5)