# U.S. getting closer to Bin Laden capture **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139 "2004-09-04T20:06:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/41 "2004-09-05T16:05:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Really? But the third one, from the same day and expressing the same sentiment, is legit? Go to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274323) and see post #30. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/42 "2004-09-05T16:06:15Z")
It just occurred to me that in that way, Bush even outsourced the job of catching Bin Laden. Even since then, it has been the Pakistanis doing all the catching of bad guys. Shouldn’t we have a leader who is willing to commit our troops, who are the the best trained and best equipped, to the number one priority of catching the guy who actually did it? Bush outsourced our primary national security jobs. Where did I leave that number for Joe Lockhart? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/43 "2004-09-05T16:08:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **t-keela** , it wasn’t highly publicized, but neither was it a secret that the US was working on an atomic bomb. The real secrets were only a small part of it, and even then they weren’t totally secure - look up Klaus Fuchs and Julius Rosenberg for background there. You have an odd definition of big. The method of how an atom bomb works was rather important, I think, and it was successfully kept secret until after the war. > [@](#): > > LSD experiments? Not big, not secret. Can’t argue that one. > [@](#): > > Nixon’s tapes? Their existence wasn’t secret, nor were they really big. Tapes that if they didn’t exist Nixon would have finished his term? Not big? Okay. Well, one out of three ain’t bad, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/44 "2004-09-05T16:52:54Z")
Screw Bin Laden, I’m just continually upset that we have yet to catch the Riddler. I mean, for crying out loud, the guy leaves riddles on how to find him any time he does anything! You’d think SOMEONE could decipher them in time. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/45 "2004-09-05T17:05:49Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Tapes that if they didn’t exist Nixon would have finished his term? Not big? Okay. You make **ElvisL1ves** ’s point for him on that one. Big or not, those tapes brought Nixon down precisely because he couldn’t keep them secret. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/46 "2004-09-05T17:21:36Z")
> [@t-keela](#): > > How about drawn and quartered. Then while he’s still alive we feed him to a herd of swine. Afterwards we could take the herd of swine and grind them into sausage and feed that to Saddam and his bunch. > I’d be okay with him simply spending the next 40 years to life slopping the hogs and shoveling their shit. Maybe we could get him Saddam, Dick and George all working at the same nasty place together. 24/7 knee deep in pig shit from now on with nothing to wear and eating the same thing the pigs eat. They’d have to work together to keep the hogs from devouring their asses. Hot, nasty, rancid stench plus muddy water and souring slop to dine on. Maybe some pig sex from time to time. Then in the end to die face down in the mud only to rot while being eaten half alive. Yeah that’d do it. Death is too generous, too forgiving. I mean come on **ralph** have a little imagination. > 😉 Pig hater! _Won’t somebody **please** think of the pigs!_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/47 "2004-09-05T17:23:21Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > It just occurred to me that in that way, Bush even outsourced the job of catching Bin Laden. Even since then, it has been the Pakistanis doing all the catching of bad guys. Shouldn’t we have a leader who is willing to commit our troops, who are the the best trained and best equipped, to the number one priority of catching the guy who actually did it? > > Bush outsourced our primary national security jobs. Where did I leave that number for Joe Lockhart? No, you have it wrong. This is called, “working closely with our allies.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kiffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d78d45/32.png) [@kiffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiffa)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/48 "2004-09-05T17:30:49Z")
Now wait a minute… did I read correctly that the Pakistanis asked for more helicopters and stuff so that they can step up the hunt for OBL? And they are receiving more material help from Dubya’s govt? This certainly would give credance to the idea that the administration really wants to bring in that big October surprise. Given the original October surprise was Republican Party finagling, I would say that the possibility is there. This might also mean that the Bushies decided that the arrested bounty hunter was really a criminal who comitted human rights violations. You remember him, correct? That is the creep that top pentagon officials discussed how to catch bin Laden, but he was arrested for kidnaping folks and holding them in his own private prison - asllegedly torturing so he could gain info that would lead him to OBL and his $25m reward… does this all run down to money? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/49 "2004-09-05T18:12:15Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Considering that we KNOW the Reagan team pulled EXACTLY the same kind of shit wrt the release of the American hostages The hostages in Iran? The fuckup happenned on Carter’s watch, not Reagan’s. Reagan got them out. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/50 "2004-09-05T18:39:19Z")
There he is in the bushes!! GET HIM!!! Oh crap!! It was just a goat. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/51 "2004-09-05T19:14:05Z")
Not big enough, is that what you mean. Let’s see, I just picked those three out of the air. Maybe a thread on the subject would bring some better ones to light. You seem to completely miss the secrecy of Nixon’s tapes. It isn’t the little secret that he had them. Nor the little secrets they revealed about him. It is the fact that there are still tapes which haven’t been publicised because of the people mentioned in them. They won’t be revealed until everyone involved is dead and can’t be harmed by what is on these tapes. Do you recall the tape where Nixon said to Erlichman (sp.) paaphrased\> “fire them, fire them all…except George Bush…[Erl.says]why keep him” Nixon replied, “because George will do any damned thing I tell him to do”… Just what exactly do you think could still be so important that after 30 ffing years these tapes are still under lock and key? No big deal to do experiments unbeknownst on our own troops without consent or acknowledgement. Some of whom wound up mentally committed and others who committed suicide. Only years later was this revealed…no big deal. I’ve had several friends and one good friend die from cancer due to the exposure he received in Vietnam (agent orange) The effects from exposure were known but kept secret until several years after the war. Thousands of peole suffer or have died from the effects. No big deal. Whatever…I suppose anything less than genocide is no big deal then. A secret only has to be kept as long as it is necessary to complete the task. After that it doesn’t matter…that’s what the spin doctors are for. hell I didn’t want to hijack the thread this far afield but to think that YOU know it all…is just a bit Bushy. and BTW **qts** evil was talking about the fact that Reagan/Bush undermined Carter’s negotiations w/ Iran by promising to trade Iran weapons for the hostages if they would just keep them until his inauguration as POTUS. Carter’s inability to retreive the hostages before the election is one of the main reason that he was defeated. Soon as Reagan took the oath Iran turned the hostages loose and a few years later the Iran/Contra hearings began. I suppose you could just say well uh…I don’t recall that. Maybe you could get a presidential pardon for treason too. No big deal though. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/52 "2004-09-05T22:47:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Come one now. Yes, small ones, known by only a few, can be kept temporarily. The more important they are, and the more people who know about them, the shorter their shelf lives. This one is overdue if it exists. Consider too that Bush needs a big boost right fucking now, with Osama’s capture being the biggest he could hope for, and you have to conclude this rabbit ain’t in the hat. No he doesn’t; he’s substantially ahead in the polls. He needs an ace in the hole; he’d be stupid to blow his wad with this much time left for Kerry to recover. He’d receive a momentary surge in popularity with such an announce, so he’ll time it accordingly: a day or two before the election. In the first place. In the second place, if you really feel there are no government secrets, that we the public know everything about everything, then you are truly naive. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/53 "2004-09-06T04:50:25Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > No, you have it wrong. > > This is called, “working closely with our allies.” 😃 Remember when the Pakistanis said they were after high level aQ people, and it turned out to be a bunch of red-shirts. They thought they were top level guys because the aQ people actually shot at them. :rolleyes: I agree that capturing him probably won’t make much of a difference now to the WoT. Right after 9/11, in Tora Bora, before the succession planning was done, that might have helped. But our fearless misleader screwed the pooch on that one. How anyone can vote for the guy who let Osama go is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/54 "2004-09-06T16:06:31Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > No he doesn’t; he’s substantially ahead in the polls. He needs an ace in the hole; he’d be stupid to blow his wad with this much time left for Kerry to recover. This is a bounce, it will fade unless he has something big to solidify it. > [@](#): > > In the second place, if you really feel there are no government secrets, that we the public know everything about everything, then you are truly naive. Learn to read. I never fucking said that or anything that can be interpreted by any reasonable person as saying that. Hint: I referred to “shelf life”. Now go find a grownup to help you with the big words. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/55 "2004-09-06T16:23:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Learn to read. I never fucking said that or anything that can be interpreted by any reasonable person as saying that. Hint: I referred to “shelf life”. Now go find a grownup to help you with the big words. Fuck you, Elvis. You certainly did say such things. Excuse the tone, but your nastiness is entirely uncalled for, asshole. Here’s what you said: > [@](#): > > _Come one now. Yes, small ones, known by only a few, can be kept temporarily. The more important they are, and the more people who know about them, the shorter their shelf lives. This one is overdue if it exists._ This implies very clearly that you believe ALL secrets are revealed eventually; that it’s just a matter of time, or “shelf life.” In addition to which, **tkeela** , who’s even more reasonable than I am, took you convincingly to task for the same implication. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/56 "2004-09-06T20:31:04Z")
This is from the Khaleej Times online newspaper: ISLAMABAD - Pakistan Monday rejected as ”politicking” a US official’s weekend claim that Osama bin Laden was close to being captured. “He can say this, but we have no sound information. This is a political statement,” Rashid told AFP. Complete story available [here.](http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarticle.asp?section=subcontinent&xfile=data/subcontinent/2004/september/subcontinent_september221.xml) Unfortunately, the reporter forgot to tell us who “Rashid” is. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/57 "2004-09-06T20:35:03Z")
Okay, I found out who he is: the Minister of Information and Broadcasting. ISLAMABAD: Federal Minister for Information and Broadcasting Sheikh Rashid Ahmad on Monday denied the statement of Afghanistan’s Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah about the presence of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan. Talking to GEO television Rashid said: “This statement is totally baseless and has no reality.” He said, “if the Afghan foreign minister knows about his (bin Laden’s) whereabouts in Pakistan, he should inform us. We are ready to take action against him.” Complete story [here.](http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/jul2003-daily/15-07-2003/main/main12.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/58 "2004-09-06T20:43:54Z")
Ooops, how embarrassing. That second story is from 2003. Sorry, everybody. The first one is current. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/59 "2004-09-06T21:33:51Z")
[Republican]I love the smell of victory in the morning[/Republican] SOrry, guys, but I’ve little pity for you. I’ve watched most of you delude yourself about Bush time and time again, listening credulously to nonsense and ignoring fact contrary, that I’ve no pity for you now that you’ve worked yourself into a froth over rumors. You constantly attribute the worst malice to Bush. Hearing most of you with no other sources, I would have to conclude that this man “Bush” is Satan Incarnate, a devil working to cast all the world into the bowels of Hell despite having no logical reasons for doing so. Face it: for you, he’s become your devil. This “Bush” you think of doesn’t exist. He’s a fiend of your mind. An amphorous figure of evil working behind every curtain and every window, responsible for all perniciousness. I’ll readily admit Bush is not perfect. A flawless figure does not exist. I personally suspect Osama is dead. And even if he’s out there, he’s no longer as important as he once was. We’ve gotten hints we might be close before, and they haven’t panned out. But we have been slowly dismantling his network, peice by peice, player by player That is mroe important than Osama. If we catch him, it won’t inflame more martyrs. How do you anger someone who already considers your very existence a blasphemy against God and wants you dead? The Islamists are fanatics but the ordinary poeple aren’t stupid, either. If Osama gets captured or killed they will not rise up to destroy us like Leviathon. It will be at be at worst another sign that he was obviously not favored by God, because what prophet is crushed into the earth along with his allies? Now, exactly how poeple think Bush terribly screwed up the assault on Tora Bora, I’m not sure. AFAIK, it was never totally confirmed that Bin Laden was there by the time we arrived, and trying to put 100K+ troops on the ground would have been a real fuckup. It would have united a lot more support against us, while limiting support. It would have been a military blunder of epic proportions, to no gain. We still would not have gotten Bin Laden. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139/60 "2004-09-07T12:55:56Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Fuck you, Elvis. You certainly did say such things. Excuse the tone, but your nastiness is entirely uncalled for, asshole. What you said was “if you really feel there are no government secrets, that we the public know everything about everything”. This is hardly equivalent to what you \*now \* say I said, buttlicker: > [@](#): > > This implies very clearly that you believe ALL secrets are revealed eventually; that it’s just a matter of time, or “shelf life.” That may well mean there are some we don’t know _yet_. Got it? You can print this out and take it to your composition teacher if you’re still having trouble. > [@](#): > > In addition to which, **tkeela** , who’s even more reasonable than I am, took you convincingly to task for the same implication. Snicker. You gonna depend on **milroyj** to back you up next? **smiling bandit** , if you don’t know what went on at Tora Bora, it’s only because you don’t want to know. It wouldn’t have taken 100K+ troops to seal off a damn cave, either, as you \*should \* know. As for Bush being “Satan incarnate” or whatever, you’re misreading that, too. He’s just a fuckup with too much arrogance to learn from his mistakes. Those characteristics are all too human, but can’t be afforded in a CinC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-getting-closer-to-bin-laden-capture/263139.md?page=2)