# U.S. going metric? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 30, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463 "2001-01-30T22:35:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/61 "2001-02-14T18:13:10Z")
A kilopascal is a pressure of 1000 newtons per square metre. A newton is… uh… hang on a second… okay, 1 kilogram sitting on the table weighs 9.8 netwons. I think. Or maybe 9.8 m/s[sup]2[/sup] is the acceleration due to gravity. Crud. This is embarassing. Just goes to show you how often the general populace actually uses actual numbers of the barometric pressure. The weather channel’s explanation of [why kilopascals and not millibars](http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ask/ask1.htm#Q5) and [relationship between different measurement systems](http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ask/ask1.htm#Q18). Not the greatest explanations. perhaps… but they also explain the [disturbance over Minot, Noeth Dakota](http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ask/ask1.htm#Q8). However, there is a good [explanation of wind chill](http://www.theweathernetwork.com/ask/ask11.htm#Q6)! It mentions that in western Canada wind chill is often given in watts per square metre! I have _never_ heard this in Ontario. I’ve never been out west when it was cold enough to worry about wind chill. My mother was born in Saskatchewan though and told me stories of walking to school whan it was -40… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/62 "2001-02-14T22:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > A newton is… uh… hang on a second… okay, 1 kilogram sitting on the table weighs 9.8 netwons. I think. Or maybe 9.8 m/s[sup]2[/sup] is the acceleration due to gravity. Crud. Right on both counts. Weight is a force, g is an acceleration, and mass is, well, mass. F = ma , so if you have your head of cabbage sitting on the table, you’ve got weight = 1 kg \* 9.8 m/s[sup]2[/sup]. One kilogram meter per second squared is a bit of a mouthful, so we call that a Newton for short, so the weight of that cabbage is 9.8 Newtons. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/63 "2001-02-15T02:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > jti, the best way to represent that is probably “klom ter”. 🙂 **That’s it! Brilliant, Irishman! Thanks!** With respect to watts per whatever - that’s how the CBC always gives the windchill out in this neck of the woods. 1800 - brisk; 2000 - getting chilly; 2200 - dangerous if you’re not careful (that’s when the cheery little CBC announcer says, “and at that rate, exposed flesh will freeze in, oh, 30 seconds or so. Bundle up, everyone.”) Sadists. ---
**Author:** ![BunRab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@BunRab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunRab)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/64 "2001-02-15T14:41:15Z")
> [@](#): > > you’re not careful (that’s when the cheery little CBC announcer says, “and at that rate, exposed flesh will freeze in, oh, 30 seconds or so. Bundle up, everyone.”) > Sadists. Trade ya. We get the **heat index** here - as in, it’s 110° but with the humidity at 95%, it feels like 123°, which is also accompanied by an inversion holding pollution over the city…" So that basically they tell everybody just not to go outside, not to drive, and by the way, if you have extra fans please donate them to such and such charities to give to the elderly who are dropping like flies… life in the sunny South. You can bundle up for winter, but there’s not a damn thing you can do about heat. (And it will hold at 95% humidity without raining for four months at a time. I swear, the _minute_ some rich distant relative leaves me a million bucks I am moving to someplace with wind chill instead of heat index!) ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/65 "2001-02-15T15:18:17Z")
110F with 95% RH? Gah! That’s \ 43C!!! \ I’ve never felt an outside temperature that high in my life! I don’t blame you for wanting to bail. In the summer we get heatwaves, and there are always some days with high humidity and temperatures in the mid-30s. Excruciatingly umpleasant-one sweats uncomfortaly and there’s nothing you can do about it. Which is why most new vehicles and buildings in Toronto are cooled in the summer now. Man, people who grow up in Bangkok must be laughing at us… ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/66 "2001-02-15T16:43:23Z")
As I’m sure **Sunspace** will agree, Toronto gets the heat index in summer, **BunRab** , and the wind chills in winter. Each is just another way of making one feel more uncomfortable than necessary, IMO. 🙂 And I think **jti** might have supplied the reason why I remember things like “watts per square metre” from weather reports–a few years ago, I was out to western Canada quite frequently. I probably heard it on the weather reports at that time. > [@](#): > > Man, people who grow up in Bangkok must be laughing at us… Sure, **Sunspace** , but not right now. It was _cold_ this morning in southern Ontario! No matter which scale you’re counting on. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/67 "2001-02-15T16:50:40Z")
Sunspace asked: > [@](#): > > I’m Canadian, and I always say "kill-o-metre’. I wonder whether the varying pronunciations are regionalisms? Absolutely. That’s exactly what they are. What drives one regional group to say “kill-o-meter” (do you say that me-tree, or me-ter? 😉 ) and another group to say “klomter” is the vaguaries of dialect. “Klomter” is sort of a rushed through pronunciation of “kill AH me ter”. Lose as many syllables as you can and still approximate the consonants. Spoons said: > [@](#): > > As for kilopascals, that’s another confusing thing. Inches of mercury are easy to understand–we had a homemade barometer in our high school chem lab, but pictures in a book would work just as well, I guess. Knowing that, millimetres of mercury would seem to be just as easy. But how does one relate a kilopascal to something just as demonstrable and understandable? It really isn’t as directly demonstrable. The system was designed to base units off a common set and limit the units for the simplicity of comparison across the set. It suffers if you want to have some direct visual of a derived unit. The nice thing about it is you can sort out what a pressure is just by the units. kPa = kiloNewton/meter squared (1000 N/m[sup]2[/sup]; force per area). Here’s a question: using the barometer and inches of mercury, it was easy to visualize a pressure difference and what the reading was, but you still had to explain why the mercury level moved, right? I suppose you could still use a barometer in millimeters of mercury (or even inches) and then do the comparison, to show how kPa relate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/68 "2001-02-15T18:47:09Z")
No difference in English between “meter” and “metre”, any more than “theater” and “theatre” (or “check” and “cheque”, or “color” and “colour”). “Metre” is the original French spelling, but I believe the Powers That Be have stated that “meter” is the only correct spelling in English, although “metre” has been around for a long time. Similarly, “kil-AW-mu-ter” has long been the norm, but the Official Standards guys have asked that all metric words be pronounced consistently within any one language, and that means “KILL-oh-mee-ter” to go with “KILL-oh-gram”. As to pressure, pascals have the advantage of being standard. Heights of mercury columns are dependent on the local force of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![blahedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@blahedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blahedo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/69 "2001-02-16T05:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John W. Kennedy \* > **No difference in English between “meter” and “metre”, any more than “theater” and “theatre” (or “check” and “cheque”, or “color” and “colour”). “Metre” is the original French spelling, but I believe the Powers That Be have stated that “meter” is the only correct spelling in English, although “metre” has been around for a long time.** Whatever. Every English-speaking country that actually uses them, afaik, calls them “metres”. I suppose that these PTB are American? > [@](#): > > **Similarly, “kil-AW-mu-ter” has long been the norm, but the Official Standards guys have asked that all metric words be pronounced consistently within any one language, and that means “KILL-oh-mee-ter” to go with “KILL-oh-gram”.** Look, either metric is restricted to scientists, who will use them as easily convertible units, leaving the masses their traditional measures; or else it becomes used by everyone and thus part of the language and culture. And if the latter, these units will be subjected to all the usual forces of language and culture. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. One of those usual forces is putting stress where natural for the language. See, the real problem is that in French the base measures (gramme, mètre, litre) are all one syllable, but in English the last two are two syllables. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2001, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/70 "2001-02-19T04:49:42Z")
> [@](#): > > We get natural gas by the cubic metre (I think). Actually, kilograms would make greater sense there–how do I know what pressure the gas company is using to fill each cubic metre? Generally if you get gas in cubic-anything then there is an assumed pressure, assumed temperature, assumed altitude and assumed calorific value. If you’re in BC then the gas comes in Gj (as far as I know), other parts of Canada, YMMV… err or is that Ylper100kmMV. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BunRab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@BunRab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunRab)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/71 "2001-02-22T23:33:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John W. Kennedy \* > **No difference in English between “meter” and “metre”, any more than “theater” and “theatre” (or “check” and “cheque”, or “color” and “colour”).** I recently came across three anthologies of mystery stories in my local used bookstore (a gem devoted entirely to genre fiction, whole roooooms of nothing but science fiction, mysteries, romance, westerns, and Stephen King). They were, it turned out, British anthologies - they included stories by US writers, but all of the US English was converted into British English. You can imagine how disconcerting it was to see Tony Hillerman noting times as 12.30, or Sara Paretsky referring to “cheques.” The stories felt off kilter because of that - I found it easier to read the obviously British ones, set in some part of the UK where people are _supposed_ to speak British English, than to read the “translated” American stories. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/72 "2001-02-25T04:00:26Z")
> [@](#): > > You can imagine how disconcerting it was to see Tony Hillerman noting times as 12.30 That seems normal to me - what wording would you use? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2001, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/73 "2001-02-25T19:01:33Z")
Look again. It’s “12.30”, not the American “12:30”. ---
**Author:** ![0-0\_knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/858c86/32.png) [@0-0\_knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/0-0_knowledge)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/74 "2001-02-25T23:28:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by John W. Kennedy \* > > Well, I’ve been working with computers for 35 years, and I can only assume that you’ve never looked into the issue very hard. Disks have traditionally been sold rated in decimal megabytes, while software has wobbled, sometimes using megabytes, sometimes mebibytes, and sometimes (as with floppy disks) kilokibibytes, calling them all “megabytes”. > > … But at the OS level, on Windows or UNIX or VMS or MacOS or any of the other operating systems with which I am familiar, 1KB = 1024 bytes and 1MB = 1024 KB. > (edited to add missing 0) > > [Edited by Arnold Winkelried on 02-08-2001 at 11:06 AM] \*\* Hoping not to jump on anyones feet, (and wondering why JWK didn’t correct a mistake that is too obvious to me, with only 12 years of experience), Windows, VMS, MacOS, or SOLARIS, HP-UNIX, are not OS’s. DOS is an OS, UNIX, is an OS, and WINNT is an OS. The prior are “version’s”, or are programs that LOAD an OS, either DOS or UNIX, as the base OS, everything else is just someones "tweaking of it to run their applications and programs. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/75 "2001-02-26T02:23:21Z")
Your statement is incorrect 0-0 knowledge. For one thing, VMS and MacOS are **not** operating systems that load DOS or UNIX as the “base” operating system. Secondly, to people in the computer field, different flavours of UNIX on different platforms are considered to be different operating systems (e.g. HP-UX vs. Sun Solaris). Thirdly, even though older versions of Windows ran “on top of” DOS, Windows was still commonly called an operating system even by programmers or other people in the software industry. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/76 "2001-02-26T06:44:56Z")
The problem with a massive switch to metric is that most of us use traditional measurements, and a lot of us find them more _convenient_ than metric. Think about it. We all know how fast 55 or 65 miles per hour is, and MPH has been the basis for our speed limits for ages. Height uses two measurements, feet and inches, and I certainly think it’s easier to get an idea of how tall someone is than with just centimeters. At any rate, there _are_ very valid, very compelling reasons for our “obsolete” system. And yes, expecting the entire country to switch to the metric system for everything in their lives was just plain ridiculous. Besides, we already use metric measurements. Film is measure in millimeters. Most races go by either meters or kilometers. Drugs, medications, vitamins, etc. have always gone by milligrams. There are _reasons_ for this. In the case of drugs, you need metric measurements because you’re almost always working with very small amounts; measuring drugs by ounces is like cutting a thread with a chainsaw. It’s not a problem for us because metric is the more _practical_ system in these cases. So in other words, we use what works best. And that’s plenty fine by me. How many of us deal with international commerce on a daily basis, anyway? And for that matter, what’s so wrong with dual measurements when the need arises? A set of numbers on the inside line of the speedometer. Three more square inches of type on the air conditioner box. A bunch of numbers in parenthesis on the schematic page. Where’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/77 "2001-02-26T14:16:13Z")
Regarding the question, “Should we all use metric?”, one of the reasons often given to do so is that the English system makes it hard to convert – 3 feet = 1 yard, 16 rods = something else, and it gets worse. But dividing or multiplying by 10 in metric is merely a decimal point adjustment. This is an argument that might have made sense before calculators or home computers were common, but to a computer, dividing by 3.14159 is just as easy as dividing by 10, tho a case might be made for using a binary system. And, except for off-the-cuff estimates, aren’t we all using computers for these calculations anyway? Now if someone will just invent a metric pi… ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/78 "2001-02-26T14:40:07Z")
1 link = 7.92 inches 1 foot = 1.5151515… links = 12 inches 1 yard = 3 feet = 4.54545454… links = 36 inches 1 fathom = 2 yards = 6 feet = 9.09090909… links = 72 inches 1 rod = 2.75 fathoms = 5.5 yards = 16.5 feet = 25 links = 198 inches 1 chain = 4 rods = 11 fathoms = 22 years = 66 feet = 100 links = 792 inches 1 furlong = 10 chains = 40 rods = 110 fathoms == 220 yards = 660 feet = 1000 links = 7920 inches 1 mile = 8 furlongs = 80 chains = 320 rods = 880 fathoms = 1760 yards = 5280 feet = 8000 links = 63360 inches ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/79 "2001-02-26T22:35:02Z")
John, you listed a lot of conversions without comment. I suppose you are trying to show the odd relationships between non-metric units (but what carpenter uses “links” or “chains” along with feet and inches?) While interesting, they won’t bother my computer in the least. Once programmed (and even the kilo-,cent-,etc. relationships need to be programmed somewhere by someone initially), it will add, subtract, multiply and divide just fine. Perhaps a bigger problem lies in the specification of which system to use, e.g., if you are sending a space vehicle to Mars and “Splat” isn’t the intended result. ---
**Author:** ![0-0\_knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/0/858c86/32.png) [@0-0\_knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/0-0_knowledge)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2001, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463/80 "2001-02-26T23:00:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Your statement is incorrect 0-0 knowledge. For one thing, VMS and MacOS are **not** operating systems that load DOS or UNIX as the “base” operating system. Secondly, to people in the computer field, different flavours of UNIX on different platforms are considered to be different operating systems (e.g. HP-UX vs. Sun Solaris). Thirdly, even though older versions of Windows ran “on top of” DOS, Windows was still commonly called an operating system even by programmers or other people in the software industry. \*\* Arnold Winkelried, your are correct, I stand aside on the fact, (after some further research) that VMS and MacOS are true Operating Systems (OS’s), but…the people who called Windows (vice NT) an OS were people who didn’t know any better. Only NT is it’s own OS. Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Win95, Win98, etc., are not OS’s, even though commonly refered to, and the term used in the programers industry for “flavors” is BIG\_OS (Bloated Internet Service Operating System. LOL [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-going-metric/52463.md?page=5)