# U.S. Intention to Convert To Metric **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 25, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954 "2004-04-25T20:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/41 "2004-04-26T16:52:09Z")
Actually, those who oppose our conversion to metric are the ones verging on unAmerican behavior. After all, two of our most revered Founding Fathers advocated its adoption as our standard more than two centuries ago. From the New Mexico State Highway commission: “There is quite a bit of cynicism about the metric system in the United States. Previous attempts at adopting the metric standard have failed. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin suggested the system be adopted …” Of course, Ben and Tom were both Francophiles which, today, would make them outcasts. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/42 "2004-04-26T17:10:05Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Previous attempts at adopting the metric standard have failed. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin suggested the system be adopted …". Talked about at length in _Measuring America_, link given above. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/43 "2004-04-26T17:49:18Z")
it’s now a criminal offence to sell most goods and commodities in anything other than metric measures here. Milk, draught beer and draught cider are about the only exceptions. Road signs still give distances in miles, and height/width restriction notices _should_, to be legal, be in feet but sometimes aren’t. T.V. programmes have a deliberate policy of only quoting most measurements in metric. Weather forecasts also refuse to use Farenheit. The schools have a deliberate policy of refusing to educate the children about real measurements, hoping that the old ones will thus become alien to an increasing proportion of the population and fall into disuse. It reinforces the goverment’s argument for change by saying ‘see, we’ve got to change because the children don’t learn it anymore’. The philosophy behind it is, “people are too intellectually lazy to make the change, they must be compelled.” The European Union says we must abandon imperial measurements because it gives us an unfair competitive advantage when selling into the North American market. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/44 "2004-04-26T17:50:00Z")
> [@fezpp](#): > > How about how the **English** spell it. M-E-T-R-E 😉 Ah, well, the English are slowly becoming Americanized anyway. Cool Britannia! ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/45 "2004-04-26T18:31:37Z")
As an urban planner in the US, I tend to use both English and metric units in the reports and plans I publish. Azoning code I wrote for a small town in Florida also uses both units, with soft-converted metric units having a similar granularity as English units (for minimums, round up from English; for maximums, round down). My colleagues think I’m a bit strange for doing this, though. ---
**Author:** ![hightechburrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f6c823/32.png) [@hightechburrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hightechburrito)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/46 "2004-04-26T19:23:48Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > Re the OP: > > The economic impetus for swithcing, at least in manufacturing, is gone. I deal with high precision drawings and (_as long as I don’t work for NASA_) conversion between the two systems is a flip of a software switch. Funny you should mention that, because I do, and on my last project, everything we did was in english units. With tolerances of 0.005 inches. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/47 "2004-04-26T20:55:10Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > [pedant] > A car that gets 25 mi/gal goes about _127_ rods to the hogshead. Better to use 4.76 furlongs per barrel (of oil), or maybe 65.625 leagues per firkin. > [/pedant] A hogshead is a variable unit, but most commonly 63 gallons; a rod is 16.5 feet. Maybe you’d better do your math again. A furlong is 660 feet and a barrel of oil is 42 gallons. Better redo the math on that one as well. And after you’re done, be sure to quote your fuel efficiency in inverse acres… ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/48 "2004-04-26T21:14:29Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > A hogshead is a variable unit, but most commonly 63 gallons; a rod is 16.5 feet. Maybe you’d better do your math again. > > A furlong is 660 feet and a barrel of oil is 42 gallons. Better redo the math on that one as well. [moron] 504,000 rods/hogshead 8,400 furlongs/barrel [/moron] I thought my numbers seemed small. And yet, I managed to do the leagues/firkin one correctly. _::smack::_ ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/49 "2004-04-26T21:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > How about how the English spell it. M-E-T-R-E. And how do they pronounce it, metRAY or meeTER? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/50 "2004-04-26T22:28:58Z")
mee-ter, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/51 "2004-04-26T23:18:13Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Derleth** > And maybe because I am a geek, I _knew_ about electricity and **watts**. > > The Metric System is French? Well then by damn it, the only clear choice for any _real American patriot_ is to stick with “our” British Imperial System. Funny thing is, the American ‘English’ system of weights and measures is not exactly the same as the English Imperial: UK Fluid ounce ≈ 0.0284 Litre US Fluid ounce ≈ 0.0295 Litre UK pint = 20 UK fluid ounces ≈ 0.568 Litre US Pint = 16 US fluid ounces ≈ 0.473 Litre UK Gallon = 8 UK pints ≈ 4.546 Litres US Gallon = 8 US pints ≈ 3.7856 Litres Non-metric systems generally suck because they use so many different multipliers/bases - it’s all a mixture of 8’s 12’s 14’s, 16’s and 20’s (and the rest) - impractical for similar reasons that Roman numerals would be impractical for serious calculations. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/52 "2004-04-26T23:24:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > My car gets four rods to the hogshead and that’s the way I like it dammit!! Yeah, but how many furlongs per fortnight will it do? On an open road, I mean, with minimal traffic. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/53 "2004-04-26T23:49:01Z")
On another subject, there was a company, years and years ago, that had some sort of gizmo that increased fuel mileage dramatically, or so they claimed. The kicker was that they conducted the “before” tests in Michigan so that miles per gallon was calculated using the American gallon. The “after” tests were conducted in Canada, using the Imperial gallon. That was the legend, anyway. I’m bored and like all old farts, I’m becoming garolous or however the dern thing is spelled. Its probably a metric word. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/54 "2004-04-27T00:14:57Z")
**WARNING: Personal rant ahead, please disregard.** > [@](#): > > It’s no different than a steel supplier selling 15.875mm cold rolled bar stock instead of half inch I don’t know anything about standards in the steel industry, but your example _seems_ like that would be a HUGE difference. Namely, your customers would all quit buying from you [I certainly would], and you’d go broke. **There are 25.4mm in an inch. 15.875mm would be 5/8" stock, It wouldn’t fit my intended applications, and I’d be pissed.** Though I’m an American, born and raised, I’ve used the metric system preferentially since I went to grade school In Atlanta in the aforementioned 70s. Okay, so why should individual citizens care? IMHO, our traditional system is a big part of the problem with our general knowledge of math and science. You can’t do easily science or engineering in the so-called English units, so most of us don’t use them in our daily lives and fully internalize them. We’re far more proficient in math when it comes to our money – because it’s decimalized. What? You think you do engineering in the traditional system? Well before you express that opinion too loudly, tell me: what’s the English unit of mass (it’s not the pound)? Of force? Of power? What’s a slug? A poundal? How many BTU does it take to raise a 1 lb weight 1 foot? Not many who could correctly answer these basic questions without looking it up would argue for traditional over metric. Without units like slugs and poundals (which are far more obscure to Americans than, kilograms, liters and meters) and dozens of conversion factors you’ve probably never learned, you can’t do science and engineering in the traditional units. So we don’t, and European or Asian high school students do. Objective tests show that most of us don’t have the innate grasp of science that high school students of most underdeveloped nations do, We’re just as smart, we just make life more difficult for ourselves by rejecting a far superior tool. I once read a 18th century math high school textbook (early 1700s). the standard math faced by any shopkeeper or clerk -or shopper- would drive us batty. Just making change was a mental workout: every state had a different currency with different values that varied with time. A customer might pay in any combination, depending on what the store next door gave them in change, and you had to make change with some combination of the currencies you happened to have in the till. “That’s a terrible example,” you say? Well, look to Europe again, and see how many billions of Euros a year their combined economy, on a par with the US economy, is saving by converting to a uniform decimalized unit. It was a lot more complicated than switching to metric would be for us. Our businesses have made the major underlying changes already because most of them have figured out that the rest of the world is a bigger market than the US is, and it’s getting bigger. Basically, currencies are one of the biggest factors that hold stable free nations -and more importantly, their citizens- apart and away from opportunities. Yes, our computer systems, down to the digital odometers on most cars, can do the conversion at the press of a button. That makes it easier to switch! Individuals are the roadblock. They don’t want to learn. We have a name for refusing to learn: deliberate ignorance. Odd, isn’t it, that most who master the new system see its advantages, while those who don’t, defend the old one? I have somewhere around here, an essay I wrote on all the times the US has adopted the metric system nationally on some level or another, and all the times it’s cost us cruelly for not carrying out our intent. It’s harrowing. Congress has studied the matter many times, always concluding the benefits of metric were increasing, not decreasin. I’d guess the percentage of defenders who’ve read them is barely in the single digits. I know the percentage of defenders who advance valid arguments of the superiority of the the old system would be lucky to reach the single digits at all. In fact, there is only one: change takes effort. I love my country. I hate to see it suffer to any degree for a lack of effort, a lack of willingness to put forth a minimal effort. I know that effort, I’ve made it. Those who haven’t, can’t say how hard it is. Even if it’s harder to change when you’re older, you don’t know how hard it is or isn’t until you’ve done it ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/55 "2004-04-27T02:33:24Z")
Agreed **KP** I think it is ridiculous to keep on clinging to the 'Merican System of measurement. A lot of people are probably familiar with the conversion mistake in October 1999 that caused the loss of a Mars probe. However, for those of you that aren’t familiar, here is a link: [http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/19991011edmetric3.asp](http://www.post-gazette.com/forum/19991011edmetric3.asp) This story is quite infamous and there are many more links about this miscalculation. By the way, I _knew_ the English unit of mass is the slug. (I think people would have been more surprised if I _didn’t_ know it). ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/56 "2004-04-27T02:50:19Z")
> [@KP](#): > > **WARNING: Personal rant ahead, please disregard.** > > How many BTU does it take to raise a 1 lb weight 1 foot? Not many who could correctly answer these basic questions without looking it up would argue for traditional over metric. I mostly agree with your rant, and I’m a fossil. Let’s go metric as soon as possible. The young will pick it up easily and we old timers will soon be out of the way. However, this particular bit is a false example. The answer to this question involves the mechanical equivalent of heat and that is no easier in metric than it is in the English system. 1 calorie = 4.186 Joules 1 Btu = 778 ft. lb. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/57 "2004-04-27T03:28:20Z")
**KP** , most schools teach in metric now, I think, even in the US. At least partly, anyway, and I think that’s best: Use metric where it makes sense and use the standard where it makes sense. There’s no sense whatsoever in converting the whole country when only a few people really need metric. Which means Europe was sold a boondoggle, but we all know how commonly that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/58 "2004-04-27T05:41:39Z")
> [@KP](#): > > **WARNING: Personal rant ahead, please disregard.** > > What? You think you do engineering in the traditional system? Well before you express that opinion too loudly, tell me: what’s the English unit of mass (it’s not the pound)? Of force? Of power? What’s a slug? A poundal? How many BTU does it take to raise a 1 lb weight 1 foot? Not many who could correctly answer these basic questions without looking it up would argue for traditional over metric. Counter example Putting air in your tire. For most of us , its PSI or Pounds per square inch, no problemo Whats is in that Foreign system , Kilopascals per something or other. Gas milage, Miles per gallon , easy That foreign system, Kilometers per 100 liters or something like that. Why would you want to use (retorical question) a system like that on an individual level. > [@](#): > > Yes, our computer systems, down to the digital odometers on most cars, can do the conversion at the press of a button. That makes it easier to switch! **Individuals are the roadblock. They don’t want to learn. We have a name for refusing to learn: deliberate ignorance. Odd, isn’t it, that most who master the new system see its advantages, while those who don’t, defend the old one?** Of the people , for the people , by the people If the people have not changed to a more “efficient system” , then maybe its not the people that are wrong > [@](#): > > I love my country. I hate to see it suffer to any degree for a lack of effort, a lack of willingness to put forth a minimal effort. I know that effort, I’ve made it. Those who haven’t, can’t say how hard it is. Even if it’s harder to change when you’re older, you don’t know how hard it is or isn’t until you’ve done it Canada had metric shoved down our throats in 1973 , and its not the pretty picture you make it out to be. Declan ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/59 "2004-04-27T06:31:42Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Putting air in your tire. > For most of us , its PSI or Pounds per square inch, no problemo > Whats is in that Foreign system , Kilopascals per something or other. I don’t know about Europe, but most Japanese use kgf/cm[sup]2[/sup], where kgf is kilogram force (1 kgf = 1 kg \* 9.8 m/s[sup]2[/sup] = 9.9 N). Perfectly intuitive. Although I wish more people would use Newtons and Pascals - I hate the blurring of force and mass units. (Though the Imperial system is even worse - references tell me the “pound” can be either force or mass.) > [@](#): > > Gas milage, Miles per gallon , easy > That foreign system, Kilometers per 100 liters or something like that. The Japanese use km/litre which is just as easy as miles per gallon. The Europeans use litres/100km which is also easy to figure out. These “foreign” units may be less intuitive to you than the Imperial units, but that doesn’t mean they are inherently more difficult to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954/60 "2004-04-27T07:04:42Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I don’t know about Europe, but most Japanese use kgf/cm[sup]2[/sup], where kgf is kilogram force (1 kgf = 1 kg \* 9.8 m/s[sup]2[/sup] = 9.9 N). Perfectly intuitive. Although I wish more people would use Newtons and Pascals - I hate the blurring of force and mass units. (Though the Imperial system is even worse - references tell me the “pound” can be either force or mass.) I will have to claim ignorance about what you just wrote (the metric stuff), lol. Now explain that to some one from Idaho or Kansas , in regards to why metric is the better system. > [@](#): > > The Japanese use km/litre which is just as easy as miles per gallon. The Europeans use litres/100km which is also easy to figure out. That actually sounds too common sense , I have no idea why Canada chose to go with clicks per 100 liters. > [@](#): > > These “foreign” units may be less intuitive to you than the Imperial units, but that doesn’t mean they are inherently more difficult to deal with. Pretty much why both systems are going to co-exist for a long time to come. Above lightspeed , everything is in metric anyways, similarly there are some measurements in things like electricity that are metric only. Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intention-to-convert-to-metric/241954.md?page=4)