# U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 6, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441 "2017-01-06T03:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/21 "2017-01-06T14:02:51Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I’m not convinced (I usually distrust intelligence sources, they don’t exactly have a sterling record for telling the truth) but even if it’s true the celebratory high-fives would simply be echoing those in the CIA when the many South American elections the US has rigged end in victory for their candidate. It’s amazing that when Republicans get a facebook post from their crazy uncle stating that Obama eats baby brains, that’s sufficient evidence. But, all of the US intelligence agencies agreeing on something means that they’re “not convinced”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/22 "2017-01-06T14:08:55Z")
Nobody has conclusively proven that every single thing on Facebook is wrong… on the other hand, intelligence agencies were wrong on an issue 14 years ago. Who are YOU going to trust? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/23 "2017-01-06T14:18:44Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The Republican opinion of Putin’s Russia is giving me whiplash. Check with the man in the high castle. He has a book for you to read. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/24 "2017-01-06T14:56:04Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I hate to tell you this because I don’t think it is something you want to hear. Russia just won a battle against the USA. And if Americans like you don’t realize that they just lost a battle against Russia, you’re going to continue losing. So American is at war with Russia? What exactly are we fighting over? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/25 "2017-01-06T15:15:08Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The mutual lovefest between Trump and Putin is over the first time Putin doesn’t get what he wants. Or when the sun blows up into a red giant, whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/26 "2017-01-06T15:17:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Nobody has conclusively proven that every single thing on Facebook is wrong… on the other hand, intelligence agencies were wrong on an issue 14 years ago. > > Who are YOU going to trust? I agree w/ your point but that’s still a misrepresentation of what happened 14 years ago. On a scale of 1-10 on the Iraq WMD issue the intel agencies were only at about a 2 or 3. The administration was at a 9 or 10 and pushed the intel folks to move themselves up that scale a notch or so to say a 3 or 4… which was used as justification for the war. It turned out that number was actually zero but to say that the intel agencies were “wrong 14 years ago” as a means to de-legitimize their findings now is just not a correct use of the facts. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/27 "2017-01-06T15:19:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So American is at war with Russia? What exactly are we fighting over? The same thing we’ve always been fighting over, Pinky. Trying to take over the world. Jokes aside, Are you even serious asking questions like that? Have you paid zero attention to modern history with respect to geo-politics between world powers? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/28 "2017-01-06T15:29:37Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So American is at war with Russia? What exactly are we fighting over? In a declared war, no, but you don’t need to be at war to be fighting. Russia and the USA are adversaries. The fight is the same thing it has been about since the end of the WW2: geo-political influence. Russia lost a lot of theirs in the late 80s and now they want it back. The USA has been the dominate geo-political force for a long time and doesn’t want to lose it. For all of my disagreements with the US on many things, I for one, prefer to live in a world dominated by the US than Russia or China. I have much more in common with the US in terms of culture and interests than I do with Russia or China. So I’m on your side. The Russians have just discovered that your democracy, and maybe all Western democracies, can be manipulated (maybe a little bit and maybe a lot, I don’t know that’s another discussion), and this is a very dangerous thing. Unless you want to live in a world where Russia is the dominant power. I certainly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/29 "2017-01-06T15:44:28Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > In a declared war, no, but don’t need to be at war to be fighting. Russia and the USA are adversaries. The fight is the same thing it has been about since the end of the WW2: geo-political influence. Russia lost a lot of theirs in the late 80s and now they want it back. The USA has been the dominate geo-political force for a long time and doesn’t want to lose it. For all of my disagreements with the US on many things, I for one, prefer to live in a world dominated by the US than Russia or China. I have much more in common with the US in terms of culture and interests than I do with Russia or China. So I’m on your side. The Russians have just discovered that your democracy, and maybe all Western democracies, can be manipulated (maybe a little bit and maybe a lot, I don’t know that’s another discussion), and this is a very dangerous thing. Unless you want to live in a world where Russia is the dominant power. I certainly don’t. Well said. For a long time, I have thought that we should be reducing our military spend, as I just didn’t see why we needed such a large conventional force. But I am starting to rethink that position, given the Russian actions in Ukraine, and the fact that Putin, I believe, thinks he should have all the old Warsaw pact back under his control (well, I think he’d make an exception for East Germany). I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually find out that Russia was agitating for Brexit, or at least trying to. And I suspect that Russia will do whatever it thinks it can to support far right parties in the upcoming European elections. A belligerent Netherlands is no threat to Russia, but it is a threat to the EU. And I wouldn’t put it past Putin to exacerbate the Syrian civil war with the specific aim of worsening the refugee crisis in order to destabilize Turkey and the EU. I admit all the above is speculation- but does anyone think it’s out of the realm or reasonable? I find it interesting that Putin seems to fault the US and EU for bringing the EU and NATO to Russia’s borders. It was the Soviet Union’s brutal, dictatorial rule that did it. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/30 "2017-01-06T15:51:22Z")
It would be illogical to assume the Russians hated Hillary any less than the Americans choosing to not vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/31 "2017-01-06T16:01:25Z")
OK, a [few](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/14/dnc-hillary-clinton-emails-hacked-russia-aide-typo-investigation-finds)[facts](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/russia-hack-u-s-politics-bigger-disclosed-includes-gop-n661866)that always get missed in these “the election was hacked!” threads: 1. There was no DNC focused ‘hacking’, there were wide spread email phishing attempts - the same type you and I get almost daily in our own inboxes. 2. These phishing emails were sent to hundreds of political officials, both Democrat and Republican 3. Only 2 were known to have succeeded - the one sent to John Podesta and one to former DNC official Rinehart 4. Podesta’s was by far the most damaging, allowing access to over 60,000 emails on his gmail account. 5. The Obama administration, the FBI and the DNC all squandered opportunities to minimize the damage So, this all boils down to poor communication, fooled users, poor security and grossly inadequate follow up. IOW, self inflicted wounds. But “hacking” sounds less embarrassing and sells newspapers. The unanswerable, eternally debatable question is: If someone in the RNC had screwed up and allowed access to sensitive emails, would they have been published? I think they would because I believe the motive was one or more of three things - 1) simple lolz; 2) profit from selling emails to Wikileaks; and/or 3) to destabilize the US political system in general. In any case, had there been an RNC breech, it would have shed much more light on the motivation. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/32 "2017-01-06T16:03:43Z")
Lay the groundwork to make ethnic groups and religious groups our enemy? Check. Re-enforce the fact that the Obama administration has failed to build good relations with Russia? Check. Put your and Putin’s mutual admiration for each other on full display for all to see? Check. Talk about ramping up our nuke program like it’s as casual as adding mustard to your patty melt? Check. Repeatedly disparage the United States’ intelligence community while building up trust in Julian Assange/Wikileaks? Check. Repeatedly demonize the media until many people are willing to believe anything BUT what the traditional media says, thus taking away their ability to effectively do their jobs? Check. Convince people that you alone have all the information and answers that the media, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security, military, et al have failed to deliver on? Check. Put into place federal department heads who are ideologically at-odds with the very departments they’re running? Almost there. Putin it seems has a direct path to manipulating Trump into an alliance that most conservatives (and liberals and every other American) would’ve heretofore been sickened to see. I think Putin originally merely wanted to see America swirl in turmoil-- economic, political, cultural, etc-- to bring us down to Russia’s level since he was incapable of bringing Russia up to ours. But now I’m not convinced he \*isn’t \*eyeballing the flagpole over the White House for a crisp, new Russian flag. (I seriously hope in 10 years everyone can point and laugh at ol’ Happy’s ridiculous paranoia these days. I’ll welcome it and even float these old posts out myself and invite the pointing and laughing.) To think we’re NOT at war, and that this isn’t a very dangerous situation we’re in, is essentially the worst-case-scenario of party over country. [Former SecDef and Cold War national security expert Bill Perry thinks we’re in a more dangerous time than we were at almost any point during the Cold War as far as nukes are concerned.](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/william-perry-nuclear-weapons-proliferation-214604) We’ve got a Russian leader and American leader both breezily talking about the awesomeness of nukes, with the Russian leader much more politically cunning than the American one. For fuck’s sake, why is this OK with conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/33 "2017-01-06T16:13:15Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > It would be illogical to assume the Russians hated Hillary any less than the Americans choosing to not vote for her. I think the people that voted for Trump voted for him for a variety of reasons. The reason I understand the most is the desire for a change to the political system. I don’t think Trump is the agent of that change, but that again is another discussion. Speaking for myself, I think it is going too far to say “Russian influence won the election”. No, that to me would not ring true. I often say that in the real-world you can’t point to one single thing and say “This is the cause!” No, things happen for a variety of causes. And as I said in my very first sentence, Trump won for a variety of reasons. But just because Russian influence may not have been a considerable factor, it should, at least in my mind, be concerning to the American voter that it is happening at all. I believe that this was just a test case. I don’t think the Russians were trying that hard, because they didn’t think they could have much effect. I believe that their limited success and the lack of American reaction will embolden them. That’s why I said above, if the American electorate doesn’t realize that they just lost a fight with Russia, then you’re going to continue to lose. This shouldn’t be about Trump, this should be about your democracy and again maybe all Western democracies. I highly suspect we’ll see the same attempts at manipulation in any upcoming election in a Western democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/34 "2017-01-06T16:17:06Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > 1. There was no DNC focused ‘hacking’, there were wide spread email phishing attempts - the same type you and I get almost daily in our own inboxes. We’re getting into bizarro land where gaining unauthorized access to computers through phishing isn’t considered hacking. I think circumventing computer security to gain unauthorized access to systems is a perfectly fine definition of hacking, regardless of the precise method used. > [@](#): > > 1. The Obama administration, the FBI and the DNC all squandered opportunities to minimize the damage What do you mean by this? For example, do you expect the Government to seize control of privately owned computer systems if it is found that they have been compromised by foreign governments? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/35 "2017-01-06T16:20:51Z")
> [@GrandWino](#): > > I agree w/ your point but that’s still a misrepresentation of what happened 14 years ago. > > On a scale of 1-10 on the Iraq WMD issue the intel agencies were only at about a 2 or 3. The administration was at a 9 or 10 and pushed the intel folks to move themselves up that scale a notch or so to say a 3 or 4… which was used as justification for the war. It turned out that number was actually zero but to say that the intel agencies were “wrong 14 years ago” as a means to de-legitimize their findings now is just not a correct use of the facts. Do you think something like that (with an administration at a 9 or 10 pushing intel folks up the scale a notch or two), perhaps on the Russian hacking issue, is possible today? Or was that just a one-time mistake and couldn’t possibly ever happen again (and certainly not under a Dem president)? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/36 "2017-01-06T16:33:04Z")
Why would Russia make an effort to install Trump? Money. Russia needs money. If the Prime Minister of Exxon is allowed to make the deal they were cooking up before the sanctions, Russia sells its arctic oil to Exxon. Excuse, but what is so hard to figure out? Remember that stuff about how a pro-Ukraine platform plank suddenly went down the memory hole? Did we ever get a solid and believable explanation on that? Either the Russians sabotaged Hillary, or they tried but failed. Neither of those is very reassuring, but the first is positively horrific. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/37 "2017-01-06T16:35:28Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > 1. There was no DNC focused ‘hacking’, there were wide spread email phishing attempts - the same type you and I get almost daily in our own inboxes. > [@Ravenman](#): > > We’re getting into bizarro land where gaining unauthorized access to computers through phishing isn’t considered hacking. I think circumventing computer security to gain unauthorized access to systems is a perfectly fine definition of hacking, regardless of the precise method used. I don’t want to speak for **Doctor Jackson** , but I think the emphasis was on “DNC focused” not ‘hacking’. The point I took away from it at least was that Putin wasn’t twirling his mustache and saying “Go forth my minions and hack the DNC!” He just told them to go forth and collect intel, and happened to get a hit on Podesta being dumb. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/38 "2017-01-06T16:37:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think something like that (with an administration at a 9 or 10 pushing intel folks up the scale a notch or two), perhaps on the Russian hacking issue, is possible today? Or was that just a one-time mistake and couldn’t possibly ever happen again (and certainly not under a Dem president)? Sure. Many things are _possible_. Do you think this scenario is _likely_? Please explain your reasoning without the same old, “Well, they were wrong 14 years ago, so…” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/39 "2017-01-06T16:49:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think something like that (with an administration at a 9 or 10 pushing intel folks up the scale a notch or two), perhaps on the Russian hacking issue, is possible today? Or was that just a one-time mistake and couldn’t possibly ever happen again (and certainly not under a Dem president)? For sake of discussion I’ll say sure. But Trump is dismissing intel he hasn’t even seen yet by saying “they were wrong before why should we trust them now?” as if the intel community came to Bush with a bag of garbage and then we ended up in a war. That just wasn’t the way it happened. This is kind of the opposite of that. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/40 "2017-01-06T17:00:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If by “work with” you mean “manipulate the ever-loving fuck out of” then you’d be approximately correct. If Trump thinks he’s going to use his _Art of the Deal_ intimidate by threatening to sue or refusing to pay, he’s in for a surprise by despot who uses threat of military intervention or inciting conflicts to get what he wants. The mutual lovefest between Trump and Putin is over the first time Putin doesn’t get what he wants. > > Stranger It is rather funny to watch people freak out about Trump\* being some sort of rube who can be manipulated by anyone at any time after Trump destroyed both the Republicans and Democrats. Someone is definitely doing some manipulation, but I suspect you have the roles reversed. Slee \*Note, I don’t like Trump and didn’t vote for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441.md?page=3)