# U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 6, 2017, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441 "2017-01-06T03:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/61 "2017-01-06T22:25:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Nobody has conclusively proven that every single thing on Facebook is wrong… on the other hand, intelligence agencies were wrong on an issue 14 years ago. > > Who are YOU going to trust? In James Clapper We Trust. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/62 "2017-01-06T22:26:46Z")
1. “Hacking” is an often mis-used, poorly understood, highly technical concept - in unadulterated form. It is going on everywhere all the time, done by both good guys and bad guys. Everyone thinks they are the good guys. 2. The U.S. “Intelligence Community,” however you choose to define it, is basically a large group of government employees feeling very threatened right now. What we know they know is a drop in the bucket. 3. Intelligence and judgments made with it in the context of misappropriated bits and bytes of all types is nothing more than source material for spin. That purpose is necessarily at odds with national interests, depending on which side of the disclosed information you fall. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/63 "2017-01-06T22:36:23Z")
Not sure to call this an aside… Read a book called\* The Second Oldest Profession\*, about spying. The boiled down gist of the book is that historically, intelligence operations are useless, mostly because the rulers or the ruling elite ignore solid intelligence that conflicts with pre-set opinions. Most dramatic example: the _primo_ Soviet spy evah, Richard Sorge, unearthed intelligence that pinpointed the moment of the German attack on Russia for the next day. He risked, and quite possibly sacrificed his life to convey the information to Stalin, who brushed it aside. At least in part because Sorge was a Jew. Our spying has gotten smarter, but have we? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/64 "2017-01-06T23:20:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I am still dumbfounded about how rank and file Republicans… Average, everyday folks… can possibly support and believe Russia and Assange, over American intelligence agencies, containing actual American citizens who have sworn an oath to the Constitution. > > I mean, how is it possible for these people (many of whom I presume were as Anti-Russia as you could get, only a year ago) to switch their allegiance away from their own country to a foreign power? > > And I really don’t buy the “you Democrats just want to go to war with Russia” Bullshit that I hear from certain facebook acquaintances. You do realize that it’s possible for one to be skeptical of the CIA’s evidence-free assertion without actually swearing allegiance to Russia, right? One could even still dislike Russia / Putin, and choose to not have blind faith in the intelligence community’s every assertion. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/65 "2017-01-06T23:22:04Z")
Do you think Hillary Clinton should be in jail? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/66 "2017-01-06T23:23:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Because the Congressional conservatives are salivating over the fortunes they’re about to make by privatizing Medicaid, Social Security, veterans’ care, prisons, and education. The ‘nostalgic for the 1950s’ conservatives are salivating over the prospect of seeing non-whites, homosexuals, and uppity women put in their proper place. And the big-business conservatives are salivating over the masses of cash they’ll be able to bank from a combination of lower taxes and elimination of costly-to-meet regulations (such as paying out on pension obligations, keeping food safe, and eliminating toxic wastes. All that costs _money_!). Personally, I’m salivating over the firearms and accessories I hope to be able to purchase soon. I probably won’t be in a position to make a fortune off the privatization of Medicaid / SS / VA / etc. Sad! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/67 "2017-01-06T23:24:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Do you think Hillary Clinton should be in jail? Was this a question for me, or someone else? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/68 "2017-01-06T23:25:28Z")
Yes, HurricaneDitka. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/69 "2017-01-06T23:25:51Z")
“Evidence-free” is a lie that’s been repeated a ton the past few weeks on Fark. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/70 "2017-01-06T23:31:05Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Do you think Hillary Clinton should be in jail? I don’t know. I certainly haven’t been (and won’t ever be) caught chanting “Lock her up” at a Trump rally (or even attending a Trump rally) if that’s what you had in mind. I wouldn’t have particularly minded if the FBI had recommended charges for her mishandling of classified materials and if she’d been convicted and jailed, but I’d leave it to a judge / jury that got a chance to review all the evidence to determine her guilt and / or appropriate punishment. In this case, the would-be prosecutor, the FBI, chose not to pursue charges against her, and I’m ok with that I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/71 "2017-01-06T23:32:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You do realize that it’s possible for one to be skeptical of the CIA’s evidence-free assertion without actually swearing allegiance to Russia, right? One could even still dislike Russia / Putin, and choose to not have blind faith in the intelligence community’s every assertion. I’m sure one could However, what is happening is that there are those who are believing everything that Russia says, without having seen the actual evidence or having had a briefing: For example, Trump this morning before his briefing on Russian involvement: > [@](#): > > **Without seeing the intelligence** , Trump dismissed the findings and told The New York Times the focus on Russia’s involvement is a “political witch hunt” by adversaries who are embarrassed they lost the election. “They got beaten very badly in the election,” Trump told the Times. “They are very embarrassed about it. To some extent, it’s a witch hunt. They just focus on this.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/72 "2017-01-06T23:33:43Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > “Evidence-free” is a lie that’s been repeated a ton the past few weeks on Fark. It is an inelegant phrase. I was trying to communicate the idea that I haven’t seen any evidence to support their assertion. They might / probably have evidence, but they haven’t shared it publicly yet (perhaps on Monday there’ll be something persuasive in their declassified report, who knows?). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/73 "2017-01-06T23:37:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know. I certainly haven’t been (and won’t ever be) caught chanting “Lock her up” at a Trump rally (or even attending a Trump rally) if that’s what you had in mind. I wouldn’t have particularly minded if the FBI had recommended charges for her mishandling of classified materials and if she’d been convicted and jailed, but I’d leave it to a judge / jury that got a chance to review all the evidence to determine her guilt and / or appropriate punishment. In this case, the would-be prosecutor, the FBI, chose not to pursue charges against her, and I’m ok with that I guess. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/74 "2017-01-06T23:39:08Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m sure one could > > However, what is happening is that there are those who are believing everything that Russia says, without having seen the actual evidence or having had a briefing: > > For example, Trump this morning before his briefing on Russian involvement: I saw that tweet and actually thought it was one of his more reasonable ones. I think he’s spot on that “to some extent, it’s a witch hunt”. The Dems are mad they got beat, and they’re looking for excuses. Their latest focus is that somebody aired John Podesta’s & the DNC’s dirty laundry in public, and that somebody might have been Russia. I don’t find complaints about the nationality of the whistleblower / leaker (and guesses about their motive) particularly moving, even if they were convincing, which they haven’t been yet. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/75 "2017-01-06T23:39:13Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > “Evidence-free” is a lie that’s been repeated a ton the past few weeks on Fark. Just to echo, [the declassified version of the report was made available today](https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/the-intelligence-community-report-on-russian-activities-in-the-2016-election/2153/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_intelligencereport-357pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory). And despite some posters merely referring to it as a product of the CIA, it was jointly written by the CIA, FBI, and NSA. They did not fully agree as to every detail (for example, the CIA and FBI had high confidence that Putin’s goals overall in not just the hack but in other propaganda and information operations was to boost Trump and weaken/discredit Hillary while the NSA is only moderately confident that this was Putin’s goal). The report goes beyond the hacks and Wikileaks publishing of stolen emails. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/76 "2017-01-06T23:39:33Z")
Trump is absolutely correct for keeping the current government muckety-mucks at arm’s length. His methods and reasoning are certainly imperfect, but he is absolutely right to view with skepticism anything anyone in the current administration or other high-ranking government officials are saying. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/77 "2017-01-06T23:41:30Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > Just to echo, [the declassified version of the report was made available today](https://www.washingtonpost.com/apps/g/page/politics/the-intelligence-community-report-on-russian-activities-in-the-2016-election/2153/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_intelligencereport-357pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory). And despite some posters merely referring to it as a product of the CIA, it was jointly written by the CIA, FBI, and NSA. They did not fully agree as to every detail (for example, the CIA and FBI had high confidence that Putin’s goals overall in not just the hack but in other propaganda and information operations was to boost Trump and weaken/discredit Hillary while the NSA is only moderately confident that this was Putin’s goal). > > The report goes beyond the hacks and Wikileaks publishing of stolen emails. Thanks for this. I’d heard it wouldn’t be publicly available 'til Monday. Now I’ll have something to read this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/78 "2017-01-06T23:45:40Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > The report goes beyond the hacks and Wikileaks publishing of stolen emails. That is the most evidence-free report I have ever seen. :smack: Lots of vague assessments and detailed probabilities. 6 pages devoted to Russian TV broadcasts? What a joke. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/79 "2017-01-06T23:51:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It is an inelegant phrase. I was trying to communicate the idea that I haven’t seen any evidence to support their assertion. They might / probably have evidence, but they haven’t shared it publicly yet (perhaps on Monday there’ll be something persuasive in their declassified report, who knows?). This is also not true. Some evidence has been public for weeks, including that the same people that hacked the DNC hacked Ukrainian artillery. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441/80 "2017-01-06T23:53:47Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > That is the most evidence-free report I have ever seen. :smack: > > Lots of vague assessments and detailed probabilities. 6 pages devoted to Russian TV broadcasts? > > What a joke. :rolleyes: You were hoping they would give names and addresses of the US intelligence assets that they used? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-intercepts-capture-senior-russian-officials-celebrating-trump-win/776441.md?page=5)