I didn’t poison my son because he had elevated blood lead but not dangerously so, and had no symptoms. I only started wearing the stuff over the course of a month. One more month and he probably would have been damaged- had he not been in for his regular checkup. I didn’t poison myself as adults are less susceptible.
And THAT my friends, is the argument against requiring a prescription for formula.
Here is a link to a Pit thread I started based on the discussion on this topic from May that DDG posted. It’s basically more discussion on the topic, with some more personal stories thrown in.
One of the cites I gave has this listed as a common thing for formula-feeding moms to do NOW if they run out. In some places in the country, formula is referred to by non-doctors as “baby milk”. I guess the thought of the uninformed is that anything which fakes mother’s milk would be okay, since the stuff in the formula cans is nothing at all like actual milk.
I posted this title very late at night and it is more than a bit reactionary. I would change it if I could. I really appreciate you all having reasonable discussion instead of consigning me to the Pit. I didn’t mean it (and it certainly could be read) to say that formula parents were deliberately harming their children, and in fact you all who have posted seem to me to mostly be very good, caring parents. All my friends and I breastfed and the only people I’ve known to formula feed by choice are NOT good parents in other respects. My point was that the US Government and much of the health care system seems to actively promote whit is known to be the second-best alternative, and spending tax dollars to do it.
Again, I apologize and thank you for your forbearance.
If a prescription was required- it would raise the significantly. What we need is full & informed education, not propaganda from any source. (Yes- breastfeeding is better, but it can’t always be done).
Cessandra- you claim to make educated choices about your child’s health- and then you don’t vaccinate? Unless you definition of “educated” is reading alarmist half-baked propaganda- then you are wrong. Sure, I can understand skipping the most disputed of the vaccinations- some parents weigh that option carefully, and make an informed choice. But skipping ALL of them? Someday your child is going to have to leave the house, you know. And true, if EVERY other parent accepts the extremely small risks associated & gets THEIR kids vaccinated- your “precious darling” will likely be OK. But that isn’t going to happen, and it is an extremely selfish attitude to take, in any case.
Henna- your posts have shown a remarkable adult attitude, and a growth of your awareness.
Thank you for informing me that my parents were not good parents.
Are you going to take your foot out of your mouth now, or do you really wish to be Pitted before you reach your 120th post? :mad:
Sua
Sua? Did Henna know your parents? Did you mother use formula simply because she wanted to? Don’t be so sensitive. Not only is she talking about only parents she personally knows- but she is limiting her disapproval to those who had a choice and picked formula- not those who had no real choice.
I have no idea. I acknowledge I jumped the gun on that one.
'Course, if she is basing her determinations on anecdote, she has another problem with her conception of the world.
Yep.
That’s probably good advice in all circumstances. 
But what Henna should really get through her skull is that she is not only criticizing current parents, she is criticizing the resultant children; and I and probably almost all of her peers, not to mention most of her teachers, bosses, clergy, etc.
We are the people who are “sick, fat and stupid.” And whether, in fact, we are or not, we don’t like being called sick fat and stupid by some person who has decided to rave about how we have been poisoned by our idiotic parents - when she has no freaking clue whether what she says is true or not.
Sua
OK, I will certainly admit that the general tone has been very disapproving & even condemning of those who choose to use formula. And- beyond simply “hey, Breastfeeding is better, so if you can- do it”, which is pretty well conceded by the general consensus of health experts out there.
But- her tone & words have indicated that she is learning- which few here do. You are also one of “the few”, I have noted.
You consider the CDC “alarmist half-baked” propagandists? Or do you assume that I lied when I claimed to have studied sources from both sides of the issue? I don’t expect most people to agree with my decisions. Most people accept anything a doctor tells them. Maybe they’ve never taken their child for a second opinion only to be told that the first doctor was putting their child in danger. But do not call me uneducated just because I do not accept what every doctor says. Because I research everything, every prescription and every procedure, and try to weigh the good and the bad. If that’s uneducated, you have a very strange definition of the word.
She is learning, and perhaps lucky that I was feeling unfeisty on this topic.
HennaDancer, I have two children.
My oldest is adopted. We got him at six and a half months. While we were adopting, my friends were busy breeding theirs. My friends are all huge proponents of breastfeeding. Imagine having everyone around you extol the benefits of breastfeeding - your child will be, how did you put it, “sick, fat, and stupid.” (Personally I always say “A disease ridden moron whose lack of proper bonding via breastfeeding is sure to turn him into a sociopath” but basically the same thing). Now, to tell someone who made a choice not to breastfeed this is one thing, to imply it to a parent who didn’t have a choice is quite another.
My second child is bio. And was breastfed for six and a half months (until she decided she’d had enough and refused the breast). My son is healthier, thinner, and just as smart as she is. Futhermore, breastfeeding was a horrible experience for me - and probably interferred with bonding. My milk took a week to come in. My daughter was nearly hospitalized from dehydration before it did. She had a hard time latching on, and took the full week to get the hang of it. I had post partum depression, making the lack of sleep from breastfeeding, the sore breast, the constant pumping even more difficult. Moreover, I really resented it. I hated being pregnant (rather unexpectedly and quickly after adopting) and hated nursing. But, I felt I had to, and so did.
BTW, two of my LLL friends have now adopted children of their own. They both realized, independantly, that their stance on breastfeeding was unrealistic and hurtful to women who can’t breastfeed.
A woman may also choose not to breastfeed. One of my coworkers had twins - and, after talking to many people who had twins - decided that twins were challenging enough without nursing. Apparently, she found few people who got much sleep breastfeeding twins. Another woman I know decided not to breastfeed because it made her feel uncomfortable. Another stopped within days when her husband was less than supportive of it - he was already feeling left out because of the baby, breastfeeding made it worse, and she decided a stable marriage was more important (and her child is seven and they are still married - quite happily). My cousin, a former nurse practicioner and excellent SAHM, doesn’t breastfeed because of her medication. She could live without the medication (and does while pregnant), but finds parenting a baby without the meds very difficult. All of these people are wonderful parents, who made the decision not to breastfeed for completely rational reasons - and, if formula was good enough for my son, its good enough for their kids too.
When Aaron was stuck and had x-rays last week, he was vomiting everything up, had diarrhea to get rid of everything he was able to keep down, and was in significant danger of dehydrating. I am NOT going to beat the bushes looking for multiple opinions on whether he “needs” bloodwork or x-rays; as far as I’m concerned, if he’s sick, he needs them. And it’s a good thing he had those x-rays too; they came back with a questionable result that needs further follow-up.
And I’m thrilled he gets regular checkups. Airman and I both have significant personal and family histories of asthma, and Aaron has already shown a possible food reaction. Aaron’s doctor makes it a point to listen especially carefully for symptoms of asthma so it can be treated early, before he has his first attack. Ditto for heart problems. Your children’s pediatrician may revolve his checkups around vaccinations; mine revolves hers around preventive medicine to keep her patients healthy, and in some cases, alive by screening for common problems before they become severe.
The checkup and vaccination issues are merely differences of opinion. If you choose not to have them for your kids, that’s fine. They’re your children. Just don’t try to convince me that they’re not necessary for mine, because as far as I’m concerned, they are.
Robin
Robin, you are missing my point, I think. I am not saying that you have done anything wrong. In fact, I am saying the opposite of that. YOU are the parents, You know your kids, and YOU should get to make the decisions. Not HennaDancer, not the government, and not me. THe only thing I have been responding to is the accusation that because of my choices I must be ignorant and uneducated. I am not. I just made a different decision about what is right for MY kids, the same what you chose what is right for YOUR kid.
I made way too many typing errors in that post. Distracted by the kids…
Actually, the vaccination issue is not a personal issue. There is a herd effect with vaccinations; each person who is not vaccinated and catches a disease offers the opportunity for that disease to spread further.
Cessandra can get away with not vaccinating only because most of the rest of the parents have fulfilled their social obligation and done so. She is a free rider, and she better hope that more people don’t act the way she does.
Sua
I didn’t say anything about your parents. I can tell by your post that they didn’t teach you to read carefully before responding, but we probably shouldn’t blame them for that. Here is what I said, as you obviously didn’t read it all:
“I want to apologize for the title.
I posted this title very late at night and it is more than a bit reactionary. I would change it if I could. I really appreciate you all having reasonable discussion instead of consigning me to the Pit. I didn’t mean it (and it certainly could be read) to say that formula parents were deliberately harming their children, and in fact you all who have posted seem to me to mostly be very good, caring parents. All my friends and I breastfed and the only people I’ve known to formula feed by choice are NOT good parents in other respects. My point was that the US Government and much of the health care system seems to actively promote whit is known to be the second-best alternative, and spending tax dollars to do it.
Again, I apologize and thank you for your forbearance.”
And to further clarify for the interpretationally challenged: the people THAT I HAVE KNOWN PERSONALLY to choose to give their babies breastmilk substitute instead of the real thing are in other ways not as good or attentive parents as THOSE I HAVE KNOWN PERSONALLY to breastfeed, or to attempt breastfeeding. Also, as stated above, the people on this thread who have posted a different opinion to mine have seemed to be very caring, thoughtful parents whatever their choice or circumstance.
Every generation learns a little more about babies than the one before. My parents were told to put me to sleep on my tummy. Now we know that back sleeping decreases SIDS risk by something like 80%. Were my parents bad parents for doing what they were told was best so far as anyone knew? Nope. Neither were their parents bad for feeding their babies the new “scientific formula” which of course had to be better than nature could produce. Not knowing or having any way to know about a choice should garner no blame.
I can tell by your posts that your parents didn’t teach you to think before posting, but again not their fault.
Actually, I did.
And what does your personal experience demonstrate?
Does your personal experience have any statistical validity?
- What are the gross number of children of infants that you know?
- What are their age, races, and socio-economic backgrounds?
- With what percentage of parents with infants that you PERSONALLY know have you discussed their feeding habits? Have they discussed with you their intimate medical conditions, so that you know whether their decision to bottle-feed is medical or personal?
Or does your anecdotal experience provide nothing to this debate?
If you think we should base this debate on anecdote, then my siblings are ample evidence that breastfeeding is inferior to formula. My siblings consist of: an Associate Professor of Chemical Engineering at MIT; a pediatrician, a lawyer, an MBA, a scholarship law student at NYU, and an MBA student.
On that evidence, any mother who breast feeds should be locked up. But that evidence, of course, means nothing.
Of my six nephews and nieces, five were breastfed. The sixth is formula-fed. I don’t know whether that was a medical decision or a personal one, and I ain’t gonna ask. If and when I have children, I hope the mother of my kids breast feeds. But it’s her choice.
Fine. What is your opinion of the generations that were raised on the bottle? Were you raised on the bottle? If so, do you consider yourself fat, sick or stupid?
Sua
I think it’s a pretty personal choice here in the States. I was barraged with threats that if I didn’t breastfeed my kids, they would have lower IQ’s, their eyes wouldn’t work right, they’d have all kinds of ear infections and allergies.
I breastfed (or tried) my first daughter for 6 weeks. She had her first ear infection at THREE weeks. She didn’t regain her birthweight until I put her on formula. I hated her and she hated me I’m sure until I put her on the bottle. I for one, don’t have what it takes to sit and breast feed. I feel totally anchored to the baby and that I am not me anymore, but a milk producing machine.
She continued to have ear infections until she was two years old (10 ear infections her first 12 months). My second daughter was never breast fed. I enjoyed her babyhood so much more. I feel guilty to this day that I had the conflict with my first one that I had, and almost hated her. My youngest had ear infections but only 4 or five to date (she’s four).
Neither has shown too many signs of allergies, though the oldest one (breastfed) has shown some signs of hay fever.
The oldest one began reading at age 4, the youngest one is beginning to be interested in reading.
There are NO absolutes when it comes to which is better. It depends on the Mom, the Dad and the kid, and in my opinion should be a totally personal, private decision.
And by the way, both my kids have always been in around the 50th percentile in the weight for height designation and around the 95th percentile height for age.
Any of you moms or dads out there who have been there trying to buy the right length of pants for your kids that aren’t too big around know what I’m talking about here. The minute they grow into the waist, the legs are 5 inches too short…yeesh.
I feel like the whole intelligence thing is a wrong measure of which is better. Both my kids are incredibly bright, well socialized, happy, healthy kids. My oldest is the furthest ahead in her first grade class and my little one is very bright too.
Mostly, in my case, I wanted to be a good mom. I knew that breastfeeding would turn me into a beast.
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I am all in favor of education - let people know the facts.
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I am also strongly in favor of “then let them decide what’s best for them based on their criteria”
My problem w/this thread is the inherant assumption that since “breast milk is what’s best for the child” that barring simple physical issues, any mother who chooses formula over breast milk is simply either “unaware” of the facts or a “poor parent” because they do not choose “what is best for the child”.
The reality is that parents make many decisions every single day. and not all of them are based only on “what is best for the child”, but may be on “what is best for the family”, “what is best overall” etc. and frankly those are valid, proper decisions as well.
and I’m more than a little burned by some one else making a value judgement on my parenting based on a snippet view of what I do, or based on one small (relatively) fact.
My son was born by C-Section. I formula fed my child. I used disposable diapers. He was at a sitters while I worked.
Those were all decisions that I made based on my value systems, information that I had, what I believed was “Best” in the situation etc.
and I got heartily sick of people raising an eyebrow with that condemning look (either physically in person, or rhetorically on a message board). It was and is, no one else’s business to judge my parenting skills, as long as I’ve not put myself in the position of having them judged (ie abused my child and landed into family court).
And yes, I did indeed get those looks. and comments. “you didn’t really need a C-section”. “you **didn’t ** breastfeed?” “he was in day care?” etc etc etc.
he’s 18, 6/2, 175 pounds, bright, nice, etc.
no appologies from me.