# U. S. Presidents Who Were Great... Not! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 12, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439 "2017-11-12T17:03:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/1 "2017-11-12T17:03:29Z")
I was wondering how many presidents fit the profile of people who seemed great in their time, but really weren’t. Calvin Coolidge is one who comes to mind. People thought his administration was smooth and efficient (according to my hs history book). He promised a return to normalcy after World War I. And his administration was certainly less corrupt than his predecessor, Warren G. Harding. People had a high opinion of him while he was in office. But history doesn’t recognize him as great, though. In fact I recently read (I forget exactly where–sorry:)) he may have even been indirectly responsible for the Great Depression. Ronald Reagan also comes to mind. And, heck, you think my arguments are one-sided, so I will even throw out Bill Clinton for good measure. People thought he was great too (I clearly remember). But what _ **"great"** _ things did he really accomplish? (As to what presidents by contrast were great, again, my high school history book listed Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Wilson, and both Roosevelts. But hey, prove me wrong about that too.) 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/2 "2017-11-12T18:55:35Z")
John Kennedy wasn’t in office long enough to be great. He certainly had potential, but he’s admired for the Camelot mystique more than his actual presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/3 "2017-11-12T18:55:37Z")
I don’t think you hear many people calling Wilson great nowadays. His two biggest stated goals were to keep America neutral in WWI and to found a strong League of Nations - and he failed in both of those. And those failures were due to his own actions. There’s also been the growing unwillingness to overlook Wilson’s racism (he was racist by the standards of his own time let alone our time). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/4 "2017-11-12T19:39:14Z")
\*\*Wilson \*\*was not great. But _ **Little Nemo** _ summarizes it perfectly. I never saw \*\*Coolidge \*\*listed as great, just good occasionally and mostly poor. \*\*Reagan \*\*did a lot good and lot bad. But he effectively won the Cold War and brought the country out of the deep malaise of the 60s & 70s. There was run-away inflation, gas shortages, embarrassing military blunder and loss, wild-cat strikes crippling commerce, etc. He changed the dynamic. He also opened the door to the worst aspects of the Republican party, employed clueless dangerous assholes like James Watt and many others, has Iran-Contra to his disgrace and supply side economics which was not good for the long term health of the US economy. A mix bag indeed. I’ve seen too much love for \*\*Truman \*\*in the last 25 years. He went from a poor President to a great President in my lifetime (51 years). The truth is somewhere in the middle but on the good side at least. \*\*Jackson \*\*is another that has often been called Great and has the $20 bill to boot, but there is more than enough negative about this ass to downgrade him to good at best if not bad. I think \*\*Ike \*\*has been getting more recognition lately as very good at least. Not sure what the dividing line is, but he is top 10 at least. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/5 "2017-11-12T19:55:16Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > John Kennedy wasn’t in office long enough to be great. He certainly had potential, but he’s admired for the Camelot mystique more than his actual presidency. He was also incapacitated for the last months of his presidency when he should have been replaced. > **[When a secret president ran the country](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke)** > > All during September of 1919, President Woodrow Wilson became thinner, paler and ever more frail. Unfortunately, the president refused to listen to his body. He had too much important work to do. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/6 "2017-11-12T19:59:08Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He was also incapacitated for the last months of his presidency when he should have been replaced. > > [When a secret president ran the country | PBS NewsHour](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke) To be fair, Eisenhower and Reagan I believe were also of diminished capacities for the last year or 2 of their terms. FDR seemed to be sharp up until the end, but he knew he was dying during the election for the 4th term. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/7 "2017-11-12T22:57:47Z")
Another vote for Reagan. Totally blew away the budget balancing moves of Carter and sunk the country into massive debt. Didn’t finally have a balanced budget until Clinton. Also started the practice of robbing the SS trust fund. A chicken that is now coming home to roost. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/8 "2017-11-12T23:54:22Z")
Dare I say it?..Obama should’ve been a great president. He was stymied at every turn. It’s a real shame, too! There was so much potential. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/9 "2017-11-13T01:23:58Z")
I’d rate Clinton as solidly better than average, but not great. Here’s a few accomplishments: 1. CHIP. Providing health care for several million poor children is a big deal. (And it’s a sin that the GOP Congress hasn’t reauthorized it yet.) 2. Not screwing up the Internet boom of the 1990s. 3. Balancing the budget for the first time in eons. (A combination of #2 and his 1993 tax hike on rich people.) 4. Successfully intervening in the Balkans. 5. Changing our main defense concern from nation-states to terrorism. (An approach that Dubya threw out because it was Clinton’s idea. For seven months and three weeks, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/10 "2017-11-13T01:30:03Z")
I’ve seen rankings of Presidents that historians voted on, and they tend to rank JFK in the top quartile. And _I don’t get it._ Historians should be smart enough to get past the mystique. What did he do that was so great, besides not blowing up the world in the Cuban missile crisis? Which Presidents were great? Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, both Roosevelts. I’m willing to hear arguments for others, but I’d be hard pressed to make them myself. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/11 "2017-11-13T01:44:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’d rate Clinton as solidly better than average, but not great. Here’s a few accomplishments: > > 1. CHIP. Providing health care for several million poor children is a big deal. (And it’s a sin that the GOP Congress hasn’t reauthorized it yet.) > 2. Not screwing up the Internet boom of the 1990s. > 3. Balancing the budget for the first time in eons. (A combination of #2 and his 1993 tax hike on rich people.) > 4. Successfully intervening in the Balkans. > 5. Changing our main defense concern from nation-states to terrorism. (An approach that Dubya threw out because it was Clinton’s idea. For seven months and three weeks, anyway.) He could have been great, IMO, He had his brain and 2nd brain kinda occupied. It’s too bad. Why do powerful men commit these destructive behaviors? It scars their family, the objects of their abuse, not to mention their legacy! It must be in their DNA or something. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/12 "2017-11-13T02:29:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ve seen rankings of Presidents that historians voted on, and they tend to rank JFK in the top quartile. And _I don’t get it._ Historians should be smart enough to get past the mystique. What did he do that was so great, besides not blowing up the world in the Cuban missile crisis? Well, not blowing up the world does rate fairly highly with me for one. That said, hsi legend is greater than his actual accomplishments. > [@](#): > > Which Presidents were great? Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, both Roosevelts. I’m willing to hear arguments for others, but I’d be hard pressed to make them myself. Based on the OP terms, I’d mention Ulysses Grant, who was wildly popular in his time and could probably have won a third term if he had wanted to try, but in retrospect had one of the most corrupt administrations (although he was never involved, it appears, as he died poor) in American History. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/13 "2017-11-13T08:22:04Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He was also incapacitated for the last months of his presidency when he should have been replaced. > > [When a secret president ran the country | PBS NewsHour](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/woodrow-wilson-stroke) In case anyone missed it, this is about Wilson, not Kennedy. Kennedy’s health was poor, but he wasn’t incapacitated. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/14 "2017-11-13T13:36:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ve seen rankings of Presidents that historians voted on, and they tend to rank JFK in the top quartile. And _I don’t get it._ Historians should be smart enough to get past the mystique. What did he do that was so great, besides not blowing up the world in the Cuban missile crisis? I’m as happy to bad-mouth JFK as the next guy, but you ignore his accomplishments. The Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, War on Poverty, etc. may have been enacted under LBJ but it was **JFK that provided the impetus**. (It may not be clear how much of that was due to his charisma and inspiration while alive and how much was a reaction to — or apology for — his assassination.) Other JFK inspirations include the Peace Corps. … And, most specially, his successful decision to send a man to the Moon within a decade and bring him safely back to Earth. [I wrote about this before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19062379&postcount=170) (although you’ll need to click to see the best parts in the quote box). > [@Why Is JFK So Deified?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-jfk-so-deified/741541/170): > > Even today, there may be Americans who think the Apollo Program was a waste of money. (Perhaps that might be a good debate … if hindsight weren’t 20-20.) At the time it struck many people as absurd. The project to land a man on the Moon is considered one of the biggest and most expensive programs ever undertaken by the United States: among single efforts, only the Panama Canal and the Manhattan Project are comparable, and they had clear economic or military purpose. > > The budget estimated for the effort was equivalent to about 800 Billion Dollars in present-day federal spending … and there was no guarantee of success. > > _ **Man would probably not have set foot on the Moon to this day without John F. Kennedy’s determination and charisma.** _ Certainly such a thing is inconceivable in today’s political clime. [The political hurdles were as difficult as the technical hurdles.](http://www.prx.org/pieces/629/transcripts/629) > > Kennedy was surprised he was able to develop support for the project, was himself overwhelmed by the expense and difficulties, and actually _tried to backpedal out of the project._ One could criticise him for the whole effort! But to suggest his contribution to the moon landing was “to make a few speeches” is … misinformed. Also under-appreciated, apparently, is Harry Truman’s Marshall Plan — a combination of charity and self-interest that led to fast recovery from W.W. II and helped prevent W.W. III. Truman passed this program despite strong opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/15 "2017-11-13T14:13:20Z")
I see Kennedy and Reagan as very similar Presidents. They both had a lot of charisma but were short on substance. Which means a lot of people rate them really highly but then get kind of vague if you press them for details. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/16 "2017-11-13T14:21:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m as happy to bad-mouth JFK as the next guy, but you ignore his accomplishments. The Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act, War on Poverty, etc. may have been enacted under LBJ but it was **JFK that provided the impetus**. Sorry, but LBJ was the guy who made them happen. And if LBJ hadn’t escalated the Vietnam War, he’d have been a great President. > [@](#): > > … And, most specially, his successful decision to send a man to the Moon within a decade and bring him safely back to Earth. I’m trying to envision an alternate history of the 1960s where the Russians go into space and we don’t. It just doesn’t compute. (Also, putting something in a bigger font and coloring it red doesn’t make your case any stronger. :)) ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/17 "2017-11-13T17:48:54Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Dare I say it?..Obama should’ve been a great president. He was stymied at every turn. It’s a real shame, too! There was so much potential. I could be a great NBA star if the opposing teams agreed not to play defense. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/18 "2017-11-13T17:54:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I could be a great NBA star if the opposing teams agreed not to play defense. Putting a plate atop the basket is not playing defense. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/19 "2017-11-13T17:56:26Z")
The problem with history is that it overvalues wars and activism. Coolidge accomplished everything he set out to do as president. He left the nation much better off than when he became president and some of that was because of him. Eisenhower is underrated because he served during one of the most volatile times in the nation’s history and yet the times he presided over are seen as boring and uneventful. JFK had the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile crisis and the Vietnam War in 2/12 years and Eisenhower had much less in 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439/20 "2017-11-13T18:58:29Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Based on the OP terms, I’d mention Ulysses Grant, who was wildly popular in his time and could probably have won a third term if he had wanted to try, but in retrospect had one of the most corrupt administrations (although he was never involved, it appears, as he died poor) in American History. Grant was bad at literally everything he ever did except 1. Fighting wars, and 2. Writing his memoirs. But yeah, in his time he was a legend - far more so than Eisenhower, the most obvious comparison. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-presidents-who-were-great-not/801439.md?page=2)