# U.S. spying on the European Nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282 "2013-06-30T20:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/1 "2013-06-30T20:03:16Z")
> **[Europe furious, 'shocked' by report of U.S. spying | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/30/world/europe/eu-nsa/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > European officials reacted with fury Sunday to a report that the U.S. National Security Agency spied on EU offices. More shocking information from Edward Snowden. “Citing information from secret documents obtained by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, the German news magazine Der Spiegel reported Sunday that several U.S. spying operations targeted European Union leaders. Der Spiegel said it had “in part seen” documents from Snowden that describe how the National Security Agency bugged EU officials’ Washington and New York offices and conducted an “electronic eavsdropping operation” that tapped into a EU building in Brussels, Belgium.” Could this have serious repercussions for America’s relationship with her closest allies? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/2 "2013-06-30T20:13:17Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Could this have serious repercussions for America’s relationship with her closest allies? No. There may be some statements for public consumption, but spying on your allies as well as your enemies is just a fact of life. In fact, if the spy agencies of the EU and the countries that make up the EU are not spying on us as well, their citizens have grounds for complaint. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/3 "2013-06-30T20:44:55Z")
Everybody spies on everybody, or their intelligence services are derelict in their duties. What’s the controversy? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/4 "2013-06-30T20:47:08Z")
About the same reaction as the disclosure that the UK spied on officials during the G20 summit. There’ll be some official statements about the ‘shocking’ revelations, and then everybody goes about their business. The speed at which it becomes a non-issue will be surprising only to those who actually believe governments don’t spy on each other. I imagine there might be a bit more faux outrage for this one because everybody likes seeing the big guy get a black eye. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/5 "2013-06-30T21:20:42Z")
Good to see Snowden has transitioned from “whistblower” to run of the mill traitor. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/6 "2013-06-30T21:54:04Z")
I’d hate it if it derailed the free trade agreement being moved through. There are some groups that’d use any excuse to sabotage it. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/7 "2013-07-01T01:07:25Z")
I wonder if the UK, Canada, Australia or New Zealand will kick up a fuss? _ahem_ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/8 "2013-07-01T02:04:04Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > More shocking information from Edward Snowden. This is one of the most un-shocking things I’ve ever heard. Countries spy on each other. Objectively it might not be very nice, but it’s not a surprise at all. Snowden seems to be trying harder and harder to appeal to naifs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/9 "2013-07-01T02:28:50Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > Could this have serious repercussions for America’s relationship with her closest allies? No. Why would it? As noted, this happens all the time by all parties. Did you have another question? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/10 "2013-07-01T03:03:50Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > Good to see Snowden has transitioned from “whistblower” to run of the mill traitor. The European countries, like the people of the United States, are not the enemies of the United States. Therefore he is not a traitor. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/11 "2013-07-01T03:23:24Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The European countries, like the people of the United States, are not the enemies of the United States. Therefore he is not a traitor. Okay I’ll play this game. China is. Next. When one is granted a top secret clearance they pledge allegiance to the United States promising to protect classified information. Snowden at first feigned whistleblower stays by divulging said information. Now he’s just throwing shit out there to gain friends from other countries because he knows without them his assassination or death is imminent. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/12 "2013-07-01T03:30:39Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I wonder if the UK, Canada, Australia or New Zealand will kick up a fuss? _ahem_ The United States of Canada Ltd.[sup]©[/sup] wouldn’t dare. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/13 "2013-07-01T03:31:56Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The European countries, like the people of the United States, are not the enemies of the United States. Therefore he is not a traitor. Israel is not an enemy of the United States, yet Jonathan Pollard remains in jail, and I don’t think many would quibble over the label “traitor” being applied to him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/14 "2013-07-01T03:45:33Z")
If this isn’t treason, it’s because this is something every country in the world would have already been aware of this kind of thing and would have assumed this stuff was going on even if it wasn’t. That’s less true of what Snowden said about the U.S. and China, and now he’s stuck in Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/15 "2013-07-01T03:59:59Z")
Put me down as another one who cannot feel shock that countries routinely spy on each other. And I’m perplexed at the hero status of Snowden in the eyes of some people. Really, if you’re going to do that kind of work, you’d be naive beyond all belief to be surprised at some of the stuff that goes on. ---
**Author:** ![NorthernBiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@NorthernBiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NorthernBiker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/16 "2013-07-01T05:21:48Z")
Its not just that the USA is spying on EU governments, they are actively spying European citizens. Is there much, Germany and other countries can do, probably not, but America’s reputation is going to take a hit. > [@](#): > > The statistics, which SPIEGEL has also seen, show that data is collected from Germany on normal days for up to 20 million telephone calls and 10 million Internet data exchanges. Last Christmas Eve, it collected data on around 13 million phone calls and about half as many online exchanges. On the busiest days, such as January 7 of this year, the information gathered spiked to nearly 60 million communication connections under surveillance. [http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500-million-german-data-connections-a-908648.html](http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500-million-german-data-connections-a-908648.html) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/17 "2013-07-01T08:35:42Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > Now he’s just throwing shit out there to gain friends from other countries because he knows without them his assassination or death is imminent. And what do you think that says about the USA? and don’t you see how such actions could legitimise whistleblowing such as Snowden? I say good for him. I started off neutral on this but the more ludicrous chest-beating I hear from the USA the more I hope he carries on doing it. Damage them more I say, show them up for what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/18 "2013-07-01T14:15:44Z")
The U.S. isn’t going to kill this guy. What he doesn’t want to get is arrested and prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/19 "2013-07-01T14:25:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And what do you think that says about the USA? It doesn’t say much for the prognostication abilities of some US citizens. Doesn’t say anything about the US government itself, really. The US government actually has a vested interest in keeping him alive. He’s a martyr if dead. Alive, arrested, and prosecuted, he becomes a much less sympathetic figure. It’s a bit of a shame that both supporters and detractors of the actions of the US government (a) think it’s actually that stupid and (b) jump automatically to James Bond movie villainy rather than the more mundane generic evil of bureaucracy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/20 "2013-07-01T14:33:56Z")
I am, frankly, shocked that the OP or anyone else finds this shocking. What are you, eight? Countries spy on other countries. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282.md?page=2)