# U.S. spying on the European Nation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282 "2013-06-30T20:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/41 "2013-07-02T12:44:17Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Everybody spies on everybody, or their intelligence services are derelict in their duties. What’s the controversy? Yeah, I agree. I really don’t get the fuss over all of this stuff over the last few months. Remember that time your parents called for a pizza delivery back in 1972? You probably don’t. Even back then the Soviet Union likely had computers that heard that call. Those computers probably didn’t place enough importance on that call for it to be heard by an actual human, unless your parents ordered a pizza “with pepperoni, no anchovies, and kill the politburo”, but surveillance technology is hardly a new thing. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/42 "2013-07-02T13:20:28Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Everybody spies on everybody, or their intelligence services are derelict in their duties. What’s the controversy? > [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > Yeah, I agree. I really don’t get the fuss over all of this stuff over the last few months. I remember a time when we felt sorry for those poor people behind the Iron Curtain. How horrible it must be to constantly feel spied upon! What a superior society we had in the west… ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/43 "2013-07-02T13:59:25Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is more the fact that what the USA did seems so…amateur and shoddy, Well, that’s a nice piece of goalpost shifting then. The US is spying on our country! Ok, well that’s to be expected, but the US is spying on individual citizens! Ok, well that’s also to be expected, but the US looks like an amateur when it does it! (Of course, this ignores that it _still_ took a whistleblower to reveal it - that’s not too shoddy, all things considered) It would be nice if we could get a little consensus on exactly what we’re to be outraged about - the fact of the spying? Spying on individual citizens? Or the level of professionalism and expertise in the spying? It seems like there’s just a desire to generally bash the US. I can get behind that, but people should own up to it. There are limits to schadenfreude, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/44 "2013-07-02T14:11:55Z")
It’s not as though MI6 is _really_ composed of people who can take down bad guys with comically small pistols _and_ seduce dozens of countesses, all without dirtying their tuxedos. It’s not, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/45 "2013-07-02T14:16:03Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Well, that’s a nice piece of goalpost shifting then. > > The US is spying on our country! > > Ok, well that’s to be expected, but the US is spying on individual citizens! > > Ok, well that’s also to be expected, but the US looks like an amateur when it does it! (Of course, this ignores that it _still_ took a whistleblower to reveal it - that’s not too shoddy, all things considered) > > It would be nice if we could get a little consensus on exactly what we’re to be outraged about - the fact of the spying? Spying on individual citizens? Or the level of professionalism and expertise in the spying? It seems like there’s just a desire to generally bash the US. I can get behind that, but people should own up to it. There are limits to schadenfreude, after all. No, not goalpost shifting, it is all of the above and more. And I’m not outraged, I just think it is hilarious. Everybody loves it when the world politician gets caught _inflagrante delicto_. If you do go around claiming to be the “land of the free” and other such self-aggrandising statements then you have to expect a far bigger backlash than when others are found to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/46 "2013-07-02T14:46:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Countries spy on each other. Objectively it might not be very nice Countries do spy on each other. I agree that objectively it might not be very nice. Countries that spy on each other are in turn spied upon. Objectively it is neither “nice” nor “not nice” - it just is. I know you won’t believe me, **Marley**. Even now. Maybe you’ll believe Morgan Freeman, though. Tomorrow on the Science Channel, he will be [hosting](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/arts/television/through-the-wormhole-considers-mind-reading.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0) an episode of Through The Wormhole With Morgan Freeman - “Can Our Minds Be Hacked?” > [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Why are you ridiculing the OP? Because, as I found out to my dismay, it is a habit of posters on the SDMB to ridicule the OP. I will defend the OP against ridicule. Today in _The New York Times,_ in an interesting self-referential comment regarding intelligence agencies, President Obama said, “Here’s one thing that they’re going to be doing: they’re going to be trying to understand the world better and what’s going on in world capitals around the world, from sources that aren’t available through The New York Times or NBC News.” **I Made French Toast For You** - if there is one critical thinker besides me and the OP, I hope it is you. So I ask you: What did the President mean by that and why did he put it that way? I have to be critical of myself too. I read _The New York Times_ every day. What the hell could I know? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/47 "2013-07-02T14:58:01Z")
**Kozmik** , don’t hijack the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/48 "2013-07-02T14:59:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Kozmik** , don’t hijack the thread. This is the last post from me in this thread. I know more than you think. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/49 "2013-07-03T03:34:52Z")
As a side note, BBC TV is reporting the Bolivian president’s plane was just forced down in Austria awhile ago, in the notion that Snowden might be on board. He wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/50 "2013-07-05T20:04:58Z")
Friendly nations spy on each other all of the time, mommy and daddy have sex with each other, Sandy Claws, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy aren’t real, you AREN’T hot stuff with the ladies. Get over it . ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/51 "2013-07-06T10:19:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > As a side note, BBC TV is reporting the Bolivian president’s plane was just forced down in Austria awhile ago, in the notion that Snowden might be on board. He wasn’t. And the stupid French are predictable trying to derail the free-trade talks. ([France wants to ‘temporarily suspend’ trade talks with US over NSA spying](http://rt.com/news/france-us-delay-trade-603/)) Jumping on any excuse include Snowden. Although denying Snowden transport over their territory might have indicated their issues lies elsewhere. And oh yeah: [France ‘has vast data surveillance’](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23178284) Quelle Surprise! ---
**Author:** ![Not\_From\_Here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/2acd7d/32.png) [@Not\_From\_Here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_From_Here)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/52 "2013-07-06T22:46:11Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And the _ **stupid French** _ are predictable trying to derail the free-trade talks. ([France wants to ‘temporarily suspend’ trade talks with US over NSA spying](http://rt.com/news/france-us-delay-trade-603/)) Jumping on any excuse include Snowden. Although denying Snowden transport over their territory might have indicated their issues lies elsewhere. And oh yeah: [France ‘has vast data surveillance’](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23178284) Quelle Surprise! I bet that if it was revealed that the french had bugged U.S offices in Paris the _ **stupid americans** _ would already be asking for France to be Nuked. (i’m only calling americans stupid because you said stupid french.I think this type of name calling is really silly) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282/53 "2013-07-08T13:52:35Z")
**Rune** is Danish, for the record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-spying-on-the-european-nation/662282.md?page=2)