# U.S. - The Evil Empire **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 12, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961 "2001-08-12T23:37:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/1 "2001-08-12T23:37:13Z")
It occurs to me that the U.S. has evolved into a thoroughly evil empire. We have elected a recently born-again moron who was snorting coke and wild partying into his 30’s. While the majority of U.S. citizens believe that Bush stole the election, he enjoys the support of the majority of U.S. citizens. This same leader is thumbing his nose at the world community in regard to the environment, because complying with the Kyoto treaty would slow down the economic development of the amoral society that spits over 25% of the greenhouse effect gasses into the earth’s atmosphere. This same leader has decided to ignore decades of carefully crafted nuculear proliferation treaties, resulting in great concern on the part of our allies, and motivating disjoint enemies to attempt to collaborate to work against our agressive arms stance. We can’t be bothered as a nation to support U.N. initiatives such as resolutions against violence against women and children, bans on the use of land mines, and the wide-scale distribution of weapons systems and small arms. We remain the world leader in the production and distribution of weapons, which has generated tremendous instability and promoted war lord societies in much of the third world. Frankly, I am ashamed of the recent policies and actions of the U.S. government. I believe that the citizens of the U.S. are capable of motivating their leaders to behave as responsible citizens of the world community. I don’t understand why U.S. citizens have become so ambivilent regarding the actions of their government in world affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/2 "2001-08-13T00:14:08Z")
Oh yeah…??? If we’re such an evil empire, then where’s our damn Death Star[sub]tm[/sub]? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/3 "2001-08-13T00:15:34Z")
_snorts some coke, disolves into a coughing hacking fit, nearly dies_ Ugh, I think I will stick to drinking it. No, I’ll stick to Pepsi alltogether, thanks. I don’t think America is an evil empire. Just misunderstood. It has its flaws, some dark times, and some light times. Over all it is arguably the best system of goverment to date. (arguably because it is a debatable statement) Personally, though, I am more for a Monarchy. I detest democracy. Give the idiots of the world the chance to vote, and of course they will elect a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/4 "2001-08-13T00:37:46Z")
And Dammit, I want some Stormtroopers, who can’t hit anything!!! (Does this mean Russia has little green guys with big ears running around?) ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/5 "2001-08-13T00:39:46Z")
Oh, the state of education these days. We’re an Evil _Republic_. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/6 "2001-08-13T00:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HairyPotter \* > \*\*It occurs to me that the U.S. has evolved into a thoroughly evil empire. We have elected a recently born-again moron who was snorting coke and wild partying into his 30’s. While it’s not exactly the smartest thing this country has done, I really don’t see how that makes us “evil”. > [@](#): > > While the majority of U.S. citizens believe that Bush stole the election, Cite? > [@](#): > > he enjoys the support of the majority of U.S. citizens. Supporting one’s leader is evil? > [@](#): > > This same leader is thumbing his nose at the world community in regard to the environment, What exactly constitutes “thumbing his nose”? Not allowing foreigners to dictate policy? > [@](#): > > because complying with the Kyoto treaty would slow down the economic development of the amoral society Wait, you said it’s evil. Now it’s amoral? Which one is it? > [@](#): > > that spits over 25% of the greenhouse effect gasses into the earth’s atmosphere. As well as a comporable proportion of the world output. > [@](#): > > This same leader has decided to ignore decades of carefully crafted nuculear proliferation treaties, I hardly think that “reevaluating” and “ignoring” are the same thing. > [@](#): > > our agressive arms stance. Isn’t that redundant? Aren’t all arms stances aggressive by definition? > [@](#): > > We can’t be bothered as a nation to support U.N. initiatives such as resolutions against violence against women and children, bans on the use of land mines, and the wide-scale distribution of weapons systems and small arms. So it is evil to disagree with world opinion? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/7 "2001-08-13T01:06:22Z")
I thought rants belonged in the pit. Has that changed? ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/8 "2001-08-13T01:15:53Z")
::Smacks The Ryan in the back of the head:: Whattaya trying ta do? Turn this into a debate? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/9 "2001-08-13T01:26:56Z")
Every time I see a post like this, I am going to send some money to the Republican National Committee. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/10 "2001-08-13T02:05:42Z")
It ill behooves one to refer to one’s President as a moron and then go on to deplore “nuculear (sic) proliferation”. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/11 "2001-08-13T02:18:28Z")
Just out of curiosity, could some one tell me just what factors differentiate a benign empire from an evil one. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/12 "2001-08-13T02:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Drastic \* > \*\*Oh, the state of education these days. > > We’re an Evil _Republic_. Sheesh. \*\* A country can be both empire and republic. I think that the US is more of a hegemony than an empire though. Nor do I think it is evil - it just panders to the economic interests of powerful lobby groups. Nothing unusual there, either, compared to the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/13 "2001-08-13T02:22:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*Just out of curiosity, could some one tell me just what factors differentiate a benign empire from an evil one. \*\* “Imperialism” as a word has a suggestion of “evil”. Not quite sure what Ronnie Reagan was thinking of when he coined the phrase - was he suggesting the the counter-balance to the Soviet Union, the US, was a benign empire? - it just had good assonance, I think. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/14 "2001-08-13T02:27:54Z")
heh heh heh… he said “assonance”… ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/15 "2001-08-13T02:38:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > \*\*Just out of curiosity, could some one tell me just what factors differentiate a benign empire from an evil one. \*\* Sure. The fact that a Benign empire does not exist. Evil is subjective anyway. Hey, at least they aren’t putting Jews to death with poisonous gas and burning the bodies. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/16 "2001-08-13T02:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dave Stewart \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > > \*\*Just out of curiosity, could some one tell me just what factors differentiate a benign empire from an evil one. \*\* > > “Imperialism” as a word has a suggestion of “evil”. > > Not quite sure what Ronnie Reagan was thinking of when he coined the phrase - was he suggesting the the counter-balance to the Soviet Union, the US, was a benign empire? - it just had good assonance, I think. \*\* All right – so when and why did “empire” become a Politically-Incorrect descriptor? I suspect it may date from the turn-of-the 20th century, and be related to the unpleasant way the 19th-Century partition of much of the world into “imperial” spheres of influence went (Leopold of Belgium and the Congo; the Brits in India; the Treaty Ports in China; US intervention in various southern neighbors). Still, before the 30’s “British Empire” was considered a proper and fine way of address, wasn’t it? I guess someone’s gonna have to define “empire” and “imperialism” for the sake of this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/17 "2001-08-13T03:40:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HairyPotter \* > \*\*We have elected a recently born-again moron who was snorting coke and wild partying into his 30’s. \*\* Two things that strike me: 1. First you say that “we have elected” Bush, then say very soona fter that he stole the election. If he did, then we didn’t really elect him, did we? So which is it? 2. I didn’t know Bush was “recently born-again.” When did this happen? Why have I never heard anything about this? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/18 "2001-08-13T04:08:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*I didn’t know Bush was “recently born-again.” When did this happen? Why have I never heard anything about this? \*\* Maybe he was refering to the fact that Bush stopped drinking in 1981, now wait, it was 1986, or maybe 1992. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Stewart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Dave\_Stewart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Stewart)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/19 "2001-08-13T04:15:54Z")
From OED: > [@](#): > > ``` > 1. An imperial system of government; the rule of an emperor, esp. when despotic or arbitrary. > > ``` > > 1858 Westm. Rev. Oct. 344 To lower the intellectual vigour of the nation,…to exhibit to the world how the waywardness of mind will yield beneath the compression of a stern resolutionthese are the tasks set itself by Imperialism. 1861 PEARSON Early & Mid. Ages Eng. xxxiv. (L.), Roman imperialism had divided the world into master and slave. 1861 GOLDW. SMITH Irish Hist. 18 There appears to be in the Keltic race a strong tendency to what is called Imperialism. 1869 Times 15 Oct., Imperialism, or, indeed, any worse form of despotism. 1870 Daily News 8 Sept. 3 That this meeting begs to express its delight at the downfall of Imperialism in France, and the proclamation in lieu thereof of the Republic. > > ``` > 2. The principle or spirit of empire; advocacy of what are held to be imperial interests. In nineteenth-century British politics, the principle or policy (1) of seeking, or at least not refusing, an extension of the British Empire in directions where trading interests and investments require the protection of the flag; and (2) of so uniting the different parts of the Empire having separate governments, as to secure that for certain purposes, such as warlike defence, internal commerce, copyright, and postal communication, they should be practically a single state. > > ``` > > In the United States, imperialism was similarly applied to the policy of extending the rule or influence of the American people over foreign countries, and of acquiring and holding distant dependencies, in the way in which colonies and dependencies are held by European states. > > 1878 J. CHAMBERLAIN Let. 15 Oct. in J. L. Garvin Life J. Chamberlain (1932) I. 267 This infernal Afghan business is the natural consequence of Jingoism, Imperialism, ‘British interests’, [etc.]. a1881 W. R. GREG Misc. Ess. Ser. I. ii. 39 Under the pretext of Imperialism and farseeing statesmanship, the habitual and hitherto incurable fault of our Governmentsespecially of Tory Governmentshas been to look too far ahead. 1895 Westm. Gaz. 15 Jan. 2/2 ‘The Expansion of England’with its firm grasp on the great possibilities of the New Englands beyond the sea, and its vivid realisation of the British Empire as ‘a world-wide Venice with the sea for streets’gave…a decisive impulse to what may be called, in the slang of the day, ‘the new Imperialism’. 1898 Daily News 28 May 2/2 That odious system of bluster and swagger and might against right on which Lord Beaconsfield and his colleagues bestowed the tawdry nickname of Imperialism. 1899 H. H. BANCROFT New Pacific viii. 145 The word imperialism is used in this connection in a modern, American sense, as applicable to the empire of industry as well as to domain… It [implies]…the extension of political and commercial influence, particularly in the Pacific. 1899 CARNEGIE in North Amer. Rev. Jan. 5 Imperialism implies naval and military force behind; moral force, education, civilization are not the backbone of Imperialism. 1899 J. L. WALTON in Contemp. Rev. Mar. 306, I define Imperialism as a principle or formula of statesmanship for interpreting the duties of government in relation to empire. 1899 LD. ROSEBERY in Daily News 6 May 4/2, I mean the greater pride in Empire which is called Imperialism… Sane Imperialism, as distinguished from what I may call wild-cat Imperialism, is nothing but thisa larger patriotism. 1914 Cycl. Amer. Govt. II. 152/1 As used in American politics, imperialism is employed to designate the policy on which the United States has embarked of acquiring territory not a part of the United States proper, nor contiguous to it. > > ``` > 3. Used disparagingly. In Communist writings: the imperial system or policy of the Western powers. Used conversely in some Western writings: the imperial system or policy of the Communist powers. > > ``` > > 1918 Manch. Guardian 13 Dec. 7/4 The Menshevik and the small bourgeois parties have published a declaration calling on workers all over the world to rally to the support of the Russian Revolution against the Imperialism attacking it. 1939 VARGA & MENDELSOHN (title) New data for V. I. Lenin’s ‘Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism’. 1957 C. HUNT Guide to Communist Jargon xxiv. 82 The term imperialism has largely replaced Capitalism in the Communist vocabulary. Ibid. 83 The essential features of imperialism are the concentration of capital, the merging of industrial and banking capital into ‘finance capital’ and the division of the world between national and international monopolies. 1957 Encycl. Brit. VI. 135/2 They [sc. the Communists] regarded the cause of World War II to be not German aggression but British and French imperialism. 1964 GOULD & KOLB Dict. Social Sci. 319/2 It is sometimes said that Russian control of East European countries is ‘Russian imperialism’. I should have known that it was used disparagingly in Communist writings, but I was thinking more of the use of it by third world countries after WW2. > [@](#): > > empire (n) > > I. Imperial rule or dignity. > > ``` > 1. Supreme and extensive political dominion; esp. that exercised by an ‘emperor’ (in the earlier senses: see EMPEROR 1, 2), or by a sovereign state over its dependencies. > > ``` > > c1325 E.E. Allit. P. B. 1332 For alle his empire so hie in ere is he grauen. a1400 Know Thyself in E.E.P. (1862) 132 au ou haue kyngdam and empyre. c1400 Three Kings Cologne 18 Octauianus…in e eer of his Empire XLII. 1535 COVERDALE 2 Chron. xxxvi. 20 They became his seruauntes…tyll the Persians had the empyre. 1589 PUTTENHAM Eng. Poesie I. xxiii. (Arb.) 60 Your Maiestie haue shewed yourselfe…vertuous and worthy of Empire. 1681 NEVILE Plato Rediv. Pref., Many Treatises…alledged… That Empire was founded in Property. 1711 POPE Temp. Fame 347 And swam to empire thro’ the purple flood. 1821 BYRON Sardan. I. i. (1868) 350 Thirteen hundred years Of empire ending like a shepherd’s tale. 1845 STOCQUELER Handbk. Brit. India (1854) 7 From this hour (1757) the establishment of the British empire in India may be dated. > > ``` > 2. transf. and fig. Paramount influence, absolute sway, supreme command or control. > > ``` > > c1325 E.E. Allit. P. A. 454 My lady…haldez e empyre ouer vus ful hye. 1579 FULKE Confut. Sanders 628 What Empyre hath Master Sander in Grammer. 1601 SHAKES. All’s Well I. i. 72 Thy blood and vertue Contend for Empire in thee. 1667 MILTON P.L. I. 114 To deifie his power Who from the terrour of this Arm so late Doubted his Empire. 1752 HUME Ess. & Treat. (1777) I. 182 The empire of philosophy extends over a few. 1838 LYTTON Alice 129 You know the strange empire you have obtained over me. 1886 STEVENSON Treasure Isl. III. xiv. 113 Silence had re-established its empire. > > ``` > 3. The dignity or position of an emperor; also, the reign of an emperor (obs.); = EMPERORSHIP. > > ``` > > 1606 G. WOODCOCKE tr. Hist. Ivstine Kk3b, He died…in the fiftene year of his empire. 1844 LINGARD Anglo-Sax. Ch. (1858) I. i. 6 Elevation of Constantine to the Empire. > > ``` > 4. A government in which the sovereign has the title of emperor. > > ``` > > 1834 [see EMPLOYÉ]. 1850 MERIVALE (title) A History of the Romans under the Empire. > > ``` > II. That which is subject to imperial rule. > > 5. a. An extensive territory (esp. an aggregate of many separate states) under the sway of an emperor or supreme ruler; also, an aggregate of subject territories ruled over by a sovereign state. > > ``` > > 1297 R. GLOUC. (1724) 733 All thys were of hys anpyre. c1330 R. BRUNNE Chron. (1810) 6 Adelard of Westsex was kyng of e Empire. 1393 GOWER Conf. III. 282 God hath beraft him…his large empire. 1460 Lybeaus Disc. 843 A sercle…Of stones and of golde, The best yn that enpyre. 1606 SHAKES. Ant. & Cl. I. i. 34 Let the wide Arch of the raing’d Empire fall. 1735 BURKE Sp. Conc. Amer. Wks. III. 69 An empire is the aggregate of many states under one common head. 1848 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. I. 348 The position of London, relatively to the other towns of the empire. 1852 TENNYSON Ode Wellington I. 2 Bury the Great Duke with an empire’s lamentation. 1887 Whitaker’s Almanack 297 The approximate population of the British Empire is now 321,000,000. > > ``` > b. the Empire: (a) before 1804 (and subsequently in Hist. use) often spec. the ‘Holy Roman’ or ‘Romano-Germanic’ empire. > > ``` > > 1678 WANLEY Wond. Lit. World V. i. §100. 468/2 Rodolphus the second…was forced to…content himself with…the Empire. 1724 DE FOE Mem. Cavalier (1840) 35 The general diet of the empire. > > ``` > (b) Great Britain with its dominions, colonies, and dependencies; the British Empire; freq. the overseas dominions, etc., as opposed to Great Britain. Since the Statute of Westminster (1931), Commonwealth has become the more usual term. > > ``` > > 1772 R. CUMBERLAND Advt. to Fashionable Lover sig. A2v, Wherever…I have made any attempts at novelty, I have found myself obliged…to dive into the lower class of men, or betake myself to the outskirts of the empire. 1776 ADAM SMITH W.N. II. V. iii. 586 Countries which contribute neither revenue nor military force towards the support of the empire. 1847 in J. C. Byrne Twelve Years Wand. Brit. Colonies (1848) II. iii. 86 This gentleman asked whether the colony was to remain the sink-hole of the empire. 1862 Englishwoman’s Dom. Mag. Jan. 136 ‘The Hope of the Empire’the Prince of Wales. 1900 Daily News 25 Oct. 4/4 Was it too much to say that in this last twelve months the Empire had been born anew? 1902 Times 18 July 8/2 Their fellow-subjects in other portions of the Empire. 1904 Daily Chron. 15 Nov. 6/7 Lord Rosebery, in his capacity of principal guest at a dinner of the Oxford Colonial Club last night, replied to the toast of the ‘Empire’. 1917 R. MUIR Char. Brit. Empire 13 The British Navy has made the growth of the Empire possible. 1948 Times Lit. Suppl. 9 Oct., ‘Empire’, along with its adjective, has gone out of fashion, though it may still be used discreetly for the assemblage of the non-selfgoverning territories and the mother country. > > ``` > (c) the rule of Napoleon Bonaparte as Emperor of the French, 1804-15, or the period of this. > > ``` > > 1810 L. GOLDSMITH Secret Hist. Cabinet Bonaparte (1811) 112 (heading) The Government of France under the consulate and empire of Napoleon Bonaparte. 1830 HAZLITT Life Nap. Buonaparte III. xxxiv. 114 If the reign of terror excited their fears and horror, the establishment of the Empire under Buonaparte seemed an even greater affront. 1845 [see CONSULATE 2]. 1866 CROWE Hist. France xliii. (title) The Consulate and the Empire. 1902 J. H. ROSE Life Napoleon I I. xx. 470 At Metz, the troops and populace fretted against the Empire and its pretentious pomp. 1924 R. B. MOWAT Diplom. Napoleon xiii. 132 Bonaparte had ushered in the Empire by proclaiming his contempt for the law of nations. 1967 J. MARSHALL-CORNWALL Napoleon ii. 26 The French field-guns remained unchanged in range and calibre throughout the whole period of the Consulate and Empire. > > ``` > (d) the rule of Napoleon III as Emperor of the French, 1852-70, or the period of this, usually as Second Empire. > > ``` > > 1863 A. W. KINGLAKE Invasion of Crimea II. iii. 67 He [sc. Napoleon III] was very willing to try to earn for the restored Empire that kind of station and title which the newest of dynasties may acquire by signal achievements in war. 1873 Young Englishwoman Feb. 77/1 The multifarious skirts and retroussis of the Second Empire régime. 1876 C. M. YONGE Womankind xv. 114 Are we not still suffering from the expensive style begun in the Second Empire? 1904 BEERBOHM Around Theatres (1953) 332 My imagination roved back to lose itself in the golden haze of the Second Empire. 1961 M. HOWARD Franco-Prussian War i. 15 A régime so precarious as that of the Second Empire, bitterly opposed by an active and intelligent minority and resting on public apathy rather than popular consent. > > ``` > 6. transf. and fig. (Cf. realm.) > > ``` > > c1440 York Myst. xlvi. 200 Farewele, nowe I passe to e pereles empire. 1526 Pilgr. Perf. (W. de W. 1531) 69 Called to be enherytours of the celestiall empyre. 1608 SHAKES. Per. II. i. 53 These fishers…from their watery empire recollect All that may men approve or men detect! 1656 W. MONTAGU Accompl. Wom. 124 Love is an Empire only of two Persons. 1709 ADDISON Tatler No. 154 2 Æneas is represented as descending into the Empire of Death. 1772 MACKENZIE Man World I. i. (1823) 241 Liberal minds will delight in extending the empire of virtue. 1821 SHELLEY Prometh. Unb. I. 15 Scorn and despairthese are mine empire. > > ``` > 7. A country of which the sovereign owes no allegiance to any foreign superior. > > ``` > > 1532-3 Act 24 Hen. VIII, c. 12 This realme of England is an Impire. 1765 BLACKSTONE Comm. I. 242 The legislature…uses…empire…to assert that our king is…sovereign and independent within these his dominions. > > ``` > III. 8. a. attrib. and Comb., as empire-plan, -race, etc.; empire-grown adj.; empire-maker, -making ppl. a.; empire-builder, a man who acquires additional territory for his state; also formerly applied loosely to British administrators abroad; transf., one who increases his authority or influence, or who expands unnecessarily the size of his offices, etc., or the number of his subordinates; so empire-building vbl. n. and ppl. a.; Empire City U.S., a name for the City of New York; empire cloth, a cloth or sheet used as an electrical insulator; Empire Day, May 24, the birthday of Queen Victoria, formerly observed as a (school) holiday in the British Empire and instituted as a memorial of the assistance given by the colonies to the mother country in the South African war of 1899-1902 (now Commonwealth Day); Empire State U.S., a name for the State of New York; also applied to other American states. > > ``` > > ## 1894 Westm. Gaz. 30 June 6/1 A reference to Mr. Cecil Rhodes’s work as empire-builder. 1909 Ibid. 10 June 7/1 As if Shakespeare and Burns and Bunyan and Swift and all the rest of that superb gallery were not the greatest of British Empire-builders. 1927 V. WOOLF in Forum May 709 Her dreams of living in India, married to…some empire builder. 1959 Camb. Rev. 2 May 456/1 Running through the [Civil] service,…the approach of the empire builder. 1970 D. DEVINE Illegal Tender ii. 20 Wainwright was solely to blame for the inter-departmental tension. He was said to be an empire-builder. > > ## 1898 Daily News 12 Aug. 6/1 His exploits in the Empire-building line. 1962 J. BRAINE Life at Top ii. 31, I should have to continue as the despised administrator, the nasty unsympathetic accountant who kept his eye on office materials and methods and who…firmly checked any attempts at empire-building. 1962 Times 9 Nov. 13/4 One hesitates…to accuse the obstetricians of empire building. > > ## 1838 Bentley’s Misc. IV. 48 The bustle and noise of the empire city. 1857 W. CHANDLESS Visit Salt Lake II. v. 222 The mint julep, that in the Crescent City you may enjoy for ten cents, costs you twelve and half in the Empire city. 1944 Newsweek 24 July 82/3 The Empire City meeting is typical of wartime racing. > > ## 1913 FLEMING & JOHNSON Insulation & Design of Electrical Windings iii. 107 Except in the case of Empire cloth no appreciable deterioration in the insulation was noted. 1945 Electronic Engin. XVII. 498 Among the insulating materials affected are…all cellulose products such as paper, varnished fabric, empire cloth and insulating tape. > > ## 1902 Times 18 July 8/1 Lord Meath…wrote suggesting that May 24…should be observed as an official holiday under the title of ‘Empire Day’. 1922 CHESTERTON Ballad St. Barbara 74 For the spots are all red and the rest is all grey, And that is the meaning of Empire Day. > > ## 1901 Empire Rev. I. 370 A concession in support of Empire-grown wine. 1903 Daily Chron. 5 Dec. 4/4 Whether we had ‘Empire-grown’ cotton, or depended chiefly on American supplies. > > ## 1899 Empire-maker [see BEAN-FEAST b]. 1903 Westm. Gaz. 1 June 12/3 Gazing out across the silent waters at the granite hills that have seen the passage of how many empire-makers. > > ## 1894 Daily News 29 Jan. 5/2 Mr. Rhodes is an Empire-making man. > > ## 1864 PUSEY Lect. Daniel ii. 66 The great empire-plan of Alexander. 1878 MORLEY Condorcet 52 Its desire to be an empire-race. > > ## 1834 Reg. Deb. Congress U.S. 506 We are told, sir, of…the empire State of New York. 1835 Knickerbocker V. 51 Show him the public works of the Empire State, as well as those of Pennsylvania. 1841 J. Q. ADAMS in Congress. Globe Sept. App. 433 If there is an ‘Empire State’ in this Union, it is Delaware…[but] if my forty friends from New York choose to call it the Empire State, I will not quarrel with them. 1860 Leisure Hour 29 Nov. 765/2 Illinois, the ‘Empire State’ of the mighty West. 1889 FARMER Americanisms s.v., The term Empire State of the South has been applied to Georgia. 1903 N.Y. Even. Post, The saloon men of Tennessee have not, perhaps, the literary finish…of their brethren in the Empire State. 1948 Arizona (Phoenix) Republican 27 Feb. 6/1 The Empire State is ‘in the bag’ for the GOP. > > ## 1851 Gentl. Mag. CXXI. II. 54 God bless’d the empire-tree which thou didst plant. > > ``` > b. Applied to styles of clothing (esp. a dress with a high waistline), furniture, etc., characteristic of the period of the French Empire (see 5b(c) and (d)). > > ``` > > 1869 LADY C. SCHREIBER Jrnl. (1911) I. 29 Green cup and saucer, imitating ‘Empire’ Sèvres. 1870 O. LOGAN Before Footlights 292 How do you manage to pay $60 for your new but ugly little Empire bonnet? 1879 Encycl. Brit. IX. 849/2 The ‘empire’ style, a stiff, affected classicalism, prevailed in France during the reign of Napoleon. 1887 Academy 18 June 440/1 She wore, of course, an Empire dress. 1888 Weldon’s Illust. Dressmaker Dec., The Empire and Directoire styles are steadily increasing in popularity. 1889 R. BROOK Elem. Style Furnit. 29 As in all other French styles, ‘Empire’ was closely imitated in this country. Ibid., It is impossible to have a better authority on ‘Empire’ Furniture, than the book of designs published in Paris, by the architects, Percier and Fontaine, in 1809. 1901 E. SINGLETON Furnit. of our Forefathers II. 573 Empire sofa owned by Mrs. William Young, Baltimore, Md. 1904 H. E. BINSTEAD Furnit. Styles x. 116 It is never difficult to determine what is Empire. 1905 A. HAYDEN Chats on Old Furnit. 208 The wood used for…Empire cabinets is rich mahogany. a1910 ‘O. HENRY’ Sixes & Sevens (1916) xiii. 129 High-collared, baggy, empire-waisted, ample-skirted. 1958 Vogue Apr. 18 Choose this Empire-line charmer in swirling full length. 1967 E. SHORT Embroidery & Fabric Collage ii. 41 The same design would have been unthinkable on say an Empire dress of seventy years earlier. 1968 Harrods Xmas Catal. 15/2 An Empire line slip in nylon. 1970 Oxford Times 25 Sept. 11/5 She wore a full length white empire line dress with a guipure lace bodice and circular train trimmed with guipure lace. > > ``` > c. Applied to wines and spirits grown in the British Empire (Commonwealth) and imported into Great Britain. > > ``` > > 1937 AUDEN in Auden & MacNeice Lett. f. Iceland v. 57 Someone may think that Empire wines are nice. 1954 P. FRANKAU Wreath for Enemy III. v. 210 You would look like an advertisement for Empire Burgundy. 1965 R. JEFFRIES Dead against Lawyers ix. 94, I can offer you Empire sherry or a beer? The US falls into definition II 7. ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961/20 "2001-08-13T04:16:58Z")
I said that most US citizens believe that Bush stole the election, per an “opinion poll”. Regarding “born again”, I recall reading that Bush became a “born again” Christian sometime in his 30’s, and that this event contributed to his turning away from drugs and alcohol. I always have thought that Regan was thinking of the movie “Star Wars” when he used the term “Evil Empire” to refer to the Soviet Union. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-the-evil-empire/75961.md?page=2)