# U.S. to Provide Military Assistance to Syrian Rebels **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941 "2013-06-13T23:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/181 "2013-06-20T16:28:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > True, but it doesn’t always have a happy ending. Protests by bigots have, in the past, succeeded in driving others out of town, preventing churches or mosques from being built, and, in a few cases, ended in people’s deaths. Oh, sure, just answering **XT** ’s question. You’re right that there’s not always a happy ending, but the trend is going in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/182 "2013-06-20T17:15:48Z")
The ignorance displayed on this topic is utterly baffling. The idea that “Assad is a dictator so has to go!” and “The rebels oppose Assad so they’re peaceful pro democracy heros!” is the biggest most obvious lie of the last ten years. Assad is an authoritarian leader of a peaceful progressive state, where people of all colours and creeds got along with each other and were protected equally by the state until the foriegn death squads were sent in by Syria’s enemies. Assad is a [Nasserist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasserism). Here’s a basic overview of these ideas for those who are clearly ignorant of them; > [@](#): > > Nasserism is a leftist Arab nationalist political ideology based on the thinking of Gamal Abdel Nasser, one of the two principal leaders of the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, and Egypt’s second President. Spanning the domestic and international spheres, it combines elements of Arab socialism, republicanism, nationalism, anti-imperialism, Developing World solidarity, and international non-alignment. In the 1950s and 1960s, Nasserism was amongst the most potent political ideologies in the Arab World. This was especially true following the Suez Crisis of 1956 (known in Egypt as the Tripartite Aggression), the political outcome of which was seen as a validation of Nasserism, and a tremendous defeat for Western imperial powers. During the Cold War, its influence was also felt in other parts of Africa, and the Developing World, particularly with regard to anti-imperialism, and non-alignment. On the other hand you have the “rebels” a rag tag group of death squads made up of cannibals, rapists, terrorists, jihadis and psychopaths, armed, trained, funded and sent into Syria by NATO and the obsolute monarchies of the gulf in order to topple their enemy Assad and turn the country into a failed state run by the aforementioned dreggs of humanity. Every piece of information on the topic is like a flashing neon arrow pointing to this obvious reality but somehow supposedly intelligent people are still stuck in the fairytale of “pro democracy heros fight evil dictator”. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/183 "2013-06-20T17:59:32Z")
I can’t recall a single person, here or elsewhere, calling the rebels “pro democracy”. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/184 "2013-06-20T18:09:53Z")
Here you go. [pro-democracy protests in syria](http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab&q=pro-democracy+protests+in+syria&oq=pro+democracy+pro&gs_l=hp.1.1.0j0i22i30l3.1946.5427.0.7535.17.14.0.3.3.0.117.1215.12j2.14.0...0.0...1c.1.17.psy-ab.Y-xm1H3QDE0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48175248,d.d2k&fp=e0c20ce90d0163c1&biw=1058&bih=530) “about 26,200,000 results” according to google. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/185 "2013-06-20T18:14:24Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > Here you go. [pro-democracy protests in syria](http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab&q=pro-democracy+protests+in+syria&oq=pro+democracy+pro&gs_l=hp.1.1.0j0i22i30l3.1946.5427.0.7535.17.14.0.3.3.0.117.1215.12j2.14.0...0.0...1c.1.17.psy-ab.Y-xm1H3QDE0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48175248,d.d2k&fp=e0c20ce90d0163c1&biw=1058&bih=530) > > “about 26,200,000 results” according to google. That’s not the same thing, though. Pro-democracy protests did occur, but that doesn’t mean that the rebels fighting Assad right now are pro-democracy, or are being described as such. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/186 "2013-06-20T18:16:37Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > On the other hand you have the “rebels” a rag tag group of death squads made up of cannibals, rapists, terrorists, jihadis and psychopaths, armed, trained, funded and sent into Syria … So it’s kinda like The Dirty Dozen/Magnificent Seven vs. a bossy Mr Bean. I’m glad that’s cleared up. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/187 "2013-06-20T18:18:34Z")
So are you saying that the “rebels” which you support have nothing to do with the Syrian people’s legitimate calls for reform? If so then we agree, but it brings up a question; why DO you support the “rebels”? ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/188 "2013-06-20T18:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > So it’s kinda like The Dirty Dozen/Magnificent Seven vs. a bossy Mr Bean. No, it’s exactly like I just said. If you need an analogy to a children’s film to understand it then I cant help you there. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/189 "2013-06-20T18:24:41Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > No, it’s exactly like I just said. If you need an analogy to a children’s film to understand it then I cant help you there. That’s a shamebecause I was enjoying your irony: > [@](#): > > authoritarian leader of a peaceful progressive state ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/190 "2013-06-20T18:27:00Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > So are you saying that the “rebels” which you support have nothing to do with the Syrian people’s legitimate calls for reform? The legitimate call for reform was brutally crushed. I wouldn’t say the people currently fighting the regime have “nothing” to do with the reform movement, but neither are they the same people, by and large. > [@Cmoore](#): > > If so then we agree, but it brings up a question; why DO you support the “rebels”? Who said I do? The “good guys” already lost this one, thanks to Assad’s brutality. The Syrian people were “protected equally by the state” not “until the foreign death squads were sent in”, but rather until they agitated for reform and democracy. Hence, I vote the U.S. stays out if it, but that ship has now sailed. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/191 "2013-06-20T18:32:14Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > Every piece of information on the topic is like a flashing neon arrow pointing to this obvious reality but somehow supposedly intelligent people are still stuck in the fairytale of “pro democracy heros fight evil dictator”. Assad is a ruthless and incompetent dictator who completely missed the chance to transform his nation into a peaceful democracy, both before the protests and during the first months of the protests, when it was indeed may well have been both secular and democratic. His only saving grace seeming to be that he at least didn’t persecute religious minorities – although ethnic (Kurds) minorities were suppressed. Now of course, ragtag militia groups under his umbrella does persecute religious minorities. The Sunni militants may well be worse, but that doesn’t make Assad any better, and there’s no need to put him on a pedestal. Also I think there are very few that are stuck in your fairytale, or who supports Western involvement. You are hammering on open doors. In fact yours is the majority view. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/192 "2013-06-20T18:34:14Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > That’s a shamebecause I was enjoying your irony: You seem to be saying that authoritarianism is incompatible with peace and progress. That just goes to show how heavily your thinking is influenced by our peaceful (sarcasm) progressive (sarcasm) democratic (?) goverments. Anyone with a knowledge of history past what’s taught to 16 year olds in school knows this is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/193 "2013-06-20T18:43:09Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > The legitimate call for reform was brutally crushed. I wouldn’t say the people currently fighting the regime have “nothing” to do with the reform movement, but neither are they the same people, by and large. > > The foriegn fighters have been in Syria from the very beginning, the “crackdown” wasn’t on the peaceful protesters it was on the death squads who were sniping people from rooftops and gunning down soldiers from the midsts of the peaceful protesters. > > Who said I do? The “good guys” already lost this one, thanks to Assad’s brutality. The Syrian people were “protected equally by the state” not “until the foreign death squads were sent in”, but rather until they agitated for reform and democracy. > > Hence, I vote the U.S. stays out if it, but that ship has now sailed. The “good guys” (normal Syrians who protested becuase they wanted the government to subsidise fuel more and things of the like) support Assad and are terrified of the death squads. There’s no neutral stance in this situation, you either want the death squads to take over or you want Assad to crush them. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/194 "2013-06-20T18:54:44Z")
Except Baby Assad has been in power for 13 years. Peace, I grant you, he had, but where was the progress? Edit: and don’t delude yourself, Both sides use death squads. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/195 "2013-06-20T18:54:54Z")
> [@Cmoore](#): > > The “good guys” (normal Syrians who protested becuase they wanted the government to subsidise fuel more and things of the like) support Assad and are terrified of the death squads. Right, they lost, because of authoritarian brutality. There’s no viable outcome left in play where those reform-minded Syrians assume power. > [@Cmoore](#): > > There’s no neutral stance in this situation, you either want the death squads to take over or you want Assad to crush them. Sure there is, the neutral stance as an American is to leave them to their fate and not intervene. ---
**Author:** ![Cmoore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Cmoore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmoore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/196 "2013-06-20T18:57:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Assad is a ruthless and incompetent dictator who completely missed the chance to transform his nation into a peaceful democracy, both before the protests and during the first months of the protests The fact that he’s held the country together whilst under the heaviest imperialist assault since Iraq and is months away from cleaning away the scum that NATO and the gulf monarchies spent decades building up in the Middle East shows that he’s a very capable leader. He did put reforms into place and hold elections when the trouble started, but guess what? The people attacking Syria don’t care about democracy or reform (:eek:) they just want to destroy the country. > [@](#): > > His only saving grace seeming to be that he at least didn’t persecute religious minorities His _only_ “saving grace”? Follow the link I provided to the wiki page on Nasserism. If you’re not a racist, free market obsessed fruit cake then you’ll find more then just the religious tolerance side of Assad’s beliefs positive. > [@](#): > > Also I think there are very few that are stuck in your fairytale, or who supports Western involvement. You are hammering on open doors. In fact yours is the majority view. You’re right, It’s great how so many people are rejecting this attack on Syria, but there could be more people against it and they should be stronger in their condemnation of it. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/197 "2013-06-20T19:00:05Z")
What I can’t believe is that people are still supporting Nasserism. News flash: Gemal Nasser was a useless waste of space who was good at just one thing, and that was getting his ass kicked by Israel. He was Mussolini without the fashion sense. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/198 "2013-06-20T19:07:23Z")
[QUOTE=Cmoore] The fact that he’s held the country together whilst under the heaviest imperialist assault since Iraq and is months away from cleaning away the scum that NATO and the gulf monarchies spent decades building up in the Middle East shows that he’s a very capable leader. He did put reforms into place and hold elections when the trouble started, but guess what? The people attacking Syria don’t care about democracy or reform () they just want to destroy the country. [/QUOTE] Whoa…you seriously believe that what’s happening in Syria is not a popular uprising but is being orchestrated by NATO and the other gulf states?? Really? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/199 "2013-06-20T19:25:29Z")
Echoes of **Commissar** , eh? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/200 "2013-06-20T19:31:36Z")
Just your typical antiwar leftist who will be an apologist for anything and anybody as long as they’re against those evil fascist imperialist capitalist Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=11)