# U.S. to Provide Military Assistance to Syrian Rebels **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941 "2013-06-13T23:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/101 "2013-06-17T17:10:01Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > You just crossed the red-line of argument Godwinization šŸ˜‰ Perhaps a red line as in crossing the Rubicon. Yeah, yeah, Caesarization. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/102 "2013-06-17T17:16:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Wait, what?! Yes, Inspector Renault. Gambling is going on in here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/103 "2013-06-17T17:35:20Z")
Does Israel regard a Sunni fundamentalism as more desirable than a Shia fundamentalism? If so, why? From here it seems as the Sunni fanatics accuse the Shia of being aligned with Israel, and the Shia make the same claim about the Sunni. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/104 "2013-06-17T17:37:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does Israel regard a Sunni fundamentalism as more desirable than a Shia fundamentalism? If so, why? From here it seems as the Sunni fanatics accuse the Shia of being aligned with Israel, and the Shia make the same claim about the Sunni. Shia fundamentalists want to slaughter Jews. Sunni fundamentalists want to massacre Jews. Which do you think Israel prefers? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/105 "2013-06-17T17:46:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does Israel regard a Sunni fundamentalism as more desirable than a Shia fundamentalism? If so, why? From here it seems as the Sunni fanatics accuse the Shia of being aligned with Israel, and the Shia make the same claim about the Sunni. Israelis donā€™t tend think much in terms of abstracts or ideologies like Americans do. To us, ā€œSunniā€ and ā€œShiiteā€ are like gang colors; they have no real meaning in and of themselves. Instead, Israelis tend to focus on concrete groups and actors - Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran, etc. Currently, the Shiite groups (Iran, Hezbollah, the Assad regime) are seen as posing more of a threat than the Sunni groups, but that can change. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/106 "2013-06-17T17:57:57Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > the next artificial nation/state to go will be Turkey..the cracks are already growing. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/107 "2013-06-17T18:12:35Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > As I said before, this looks like the final break up of Syria. Should be stay out? Yes. > the next artificial nation/state to go will be Turkey..the cracks are already growing. What the heck is an artificial nation/state? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/108 "2013-06-17T18:24:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israelis donā€™t tend think much in terms of abstracts or ideologies like Americans do. To us, ā€œSunniā€ and ā€œShiiteā€ are like gang colors; they have no real meaning in and of themselves. Instead, Israelis tend to focus on concrete groups and actors - Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran, etc. > > Currently, the Shiite groups (Iran, Hezbollah, the Assad regime) are seen as posing more of a threat than the Sunni groups, but that can change. So, then, in the cold grim light of _realpolitik_, the notion that Israel favors a continuing and unresolved struggle amongst its enemies to be a favorable situation has some merit, yes? (Assuming for the sake of oversimplification that ā€œIsraelā€ is shorthand for the people making the decisions at this point in time.) Mind you, I couldnā€™t honestly blame them for having such an attitude. But as we of the sane community search desperately for a solution that involves a somewhat lesser bloodbath, it canā€™t be said to be helpful. I am well aware that there are sensible and humane people in Israel, and that they may one day ascend to power and authority, if He shall cease to avert His eyesā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/109 "2013-06-17T18:30:50Z")
Tired of making posts that if everyone read them, would save the world, then being told Iā€™m not really logged in, then being told again that Iā€™m not really logged in after logging in again. Screw this. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/110 "2013-06-17T18:37:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I donā€™t think Obama figures in their dreams ever. Sure he does. Heā€™s the one in a white tuxedo serving drinks and clipping the ends off cigars. > [@Diceman](#): > > Ugh. Not this bullshit again. Itā€™s no secret that the rebels are allied with Al Qaida. Why do we want to help them set up another Islamic fundamentalist state? I donā€™t see anyone who can remotely be considered a ā€œgood guyā€ here, so letā€™s just stay the fuck out of this. Maybe we already know that the rebelā€™s cause is hopeless, and are merely sending weapons that will be ineffectual in reversing that course just so we can look like we did something against a brutal dictator, while we secretly hope the brutal dictator stays in power since heā€™s the lesser of two evils. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/111 "2013-06-17T19:21:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then, in the cold grim light of _realpolitik_, the notion that Israel favors a continuing and unresolved struggle amongst its enemies to be a favorable situation has some merit, yes? Run that by again? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/112 "2013-06-17T19:33:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then, in the cold grim light of _realpolitik_, the notion that Israel favors a continuing and unresolved struggle amongst its enemies to be a favorable situation has some merit, yes? (Assuming for the sake of oversimplification that ā€œIsraelā€ is shorthand for the people making the decisions at this point in time.) > > Mind you, I couldnā€™t honestly blame them for having such an attitude. But as we of the sane community search desperately for a solution that involves a somewhat lesser bloodbath, it canā€™t be said to be helpful. I am well aware that there are sensible and humane people in Israel, and that they may one day ascend to power and authority, if He shall cease to avert His eyesā€¦ Well, no. Some of our wingnuts aside, most people here would prefer peace; if nothing else, itā€™s better for business. That said, though, if theā€™re going to be fighting, weā€™d rather they fight each other than us. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/113 "2013-06-17T19:42:40Z")
Is it pretty much a widely held belief in Israel that no matter which side ā€œwinsā€, that Syria will still be hostile to Israel? Is there a preference among Israelis for one side over another? Maybe preferring the Devil you know (Assad) to the Devil you donā€™t? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/114 "2013-06-17T19:52:14Z")
Thereā€™s some of that. Israelis are very concerned by reports of Al Qaeda in the Golan Heights; say what you want about Assad, but he kept that border quiet for nearly 40 years. However, weā€™re also getting the impression more and more lately that the Hezbollah tail (and by implication, Iran) is wagging the Syrian dog, and Hezbollah is considered a much bigger threat than Al-Qaeda. Add that to the general chaos and to the fact that we can never be sure whoā€™s in control of Syriaā€™s strategic weapons, and we have a very precarious situation. Thereā€™s certainly a bit of nostalgia for the way things were before the troubles started. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/115 "2013-06-17T20:16:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then, in the cold grim light of _realpolitik_, the notion that Israel favors a continuing and unresolved struggle amongst its enemies to be a favorable situation has some merit, yes? (Assuming for the sake of oversimplification that ā€œIsraelā€ is shorthand for the people making the decisions at this point in time.) > > Mind you, I couldnā€™t honestly blame them for having such an attitude. But as we of the sane community search desperately for a solution that involves a somewhat lesser bloodbath, it canā€™t be said to be helpful. I am well aware that there are sensible and humane people in Israel, and that they may one day ascend to power and authority, if He shall cease to avert His eyesā€¦ Huh? šŸ˜• There is no indication that Israel wants continuous violence and instability in a nation it happens to share a border with - if that is what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/116 "2013-06-17T20:22:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > As I said before, this looks like the final break up of Syria. Should be stay out? Yes. > the next artificial nation/state to go will be Turkey..the cracks are already growing. The problems in Syria are causing some of the problems in Turkey. If we could stabilize Syria, it would help stabilize Turkey. This is actually a good reason for intervention. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/117 "2013-06-17T20:41:32Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The problems in Syria are causing some of the problems in Turkey. How so? I know the Turks are concerned about events in Syria. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/118 "2013-06-17T20:59:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Thereā€™s some of that. Israelis are very concerned by reports of Al Qaeda in the Golan Heights; say what you want about Assad, but he kept that border quiet for nearly 40 years. However, weā€™re also getting the impression more and more lately that the Hezbollah tail (and by implication, Iran) is wagging the Syrian dog, and Hezbollah is considered a much bigger threat than Al-Qaeda. Add that to the general chaos and to the fact that we can never be sure whoā€™s in control of Syriaā€™s strategic weapons, and we have a very precarious situation. Thereā€™s certainly a bit of nostalgia for the way things were before the troubles started. Thanks. Thatā€™s pretty much what I would have guessed that while although Assad is a bastard and Syria is in deep with Hezbollah and Iran, at least he knew better than to fuck around and start shit in the Golan Heights. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/119 "2013-06-17T21:05:23Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What the heck is an artificial nation/state? Its a nation put together without any consent of the people therein. Turkey was created by Kemal Ataturk. It is a collection of tribes, who really donā€™t get along..remember Yugoslavia? It was a 70 year old mistake-which came flying apart when dictator Tito died. The same will happen to Turkey ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/120 "2013-06-17T21:59:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Its a nation put together without any consent of the people therein. Turkey was created by Kemal Ataturk. It is a collection of tribes, who really donā€™t get along..remember Yugoslavia? It was a 70 year old mistake-which came flying apart when dictator Tito died. The same will happen to Turkey This might apply to Syria, Iraq or Libya, but itā€™s completely off-base as far as Turkey (or Egypt, Iran and Israel) is concerned. And even if Turkey, as it stands today, was invented by Ataturk, then what of it? What matters is what it is now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=7)