# U.S. to Provide Military Assistance to Syrian Rebels **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941 "2013-06-13T23:43:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/141 "2013-06-18T03:25:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And how did Ataturk “do away with” it, other than changing the Arabic letters to Roman? What are you talking about? Ottoman wasn’t in the Arabic alphabet? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/142 "2013-06-18T05:18:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The problems in Syria are causing some of the problems in Turkey. If we could stabilize Syria, it would help stabilize Turkey. This is actually a good reason for intervention. Turkey is reaping what they sowed. They, along with the Saudis and Qataris, are largely responsible for propping up the rebels when they have no real support from native Syrians. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/143 "2013-06-18T05:26:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … and is completely illegal in international law, unless it is sanctioned by the UN. > > I am not saying “don’t do it”. I am saying don’t pretend it “upholds the standard of law”. Isn’t that the plan, though? To get UN approval first? Isn’t that what we did with Libya? Also, wouldn’t it be just as illegal to give a bunch of rifles and grenades to the Syrian rebels? What’s the difference, really? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/144 "2013-06-18T05:32:58Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I’ve wondered for decades why the U.S. had to lead in the Yugoslavian conflict. Shouldn’t European forces have dealt with it? It was primarily a bombing campaign so once again we leaned heavily on the nation that has all the cool toys for doing that. But among countries that provided planes are Italy, the UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Denmark and the Netherlands. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/145 "2013-06-18T05:38:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Oh, so then if Prince Charles converted to Judaism or Islam that wouldn’t cause any issues in the UK? No, of course not – just so long as it wasn’t Catholicism! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/146 "2013-06-18T05:43:54Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Turkey is reaping what they sowed. They, along with the Saudis and Qataris, are largely responsible for propping up the rebels when they have no real support from native Syrians. Yep. When 100,000 people marched in Daraa, they were actually american spies disguised as syrians. Meanwhile Qataris who had infiltrated the Syrian security forces opened fire on the crowds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/147 "2013-06-18T05:49:44Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What are you talking about? > > Ottoman wasn’t in the Arabic alphabet? :dubious: Yes, of course it was, that was why I said “other than”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/148 "2013-06-18T05:51:30Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Turkey is reaping what they sowed. They, along with the Saudis and Qataris, are largely responsible for propping up the rebels when they have no real support from native Syrians. How could the rebellion have persisted for the past two years, as it has, if it did not have the support of native Syrians? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/149 "2013-06-18T05:54:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israelis don’t tend think much in terms of abstracts or ideologies like Americans do. To us, “Sunni” and “Shiite” are like gang colors; they have no real meaning in and of themselves. Instead, Israelis tend to focus on concrete groups and actors - Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Iran, etc. > > Currently, the Shiite groups (Iran, Hezbollah, the Assad regime) are seen as posing more of a threat than the Sunni groups, but that can change. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, which side do you want to win this war? I repeat. Which side do you want to win this war? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/150 "2013-06-18T06:23:37Z")
Jesus Christ. Can’t a man get some sleep? Personally, I’d like to see some non-Al-Qaeda rebel group win the war; or perhaps a palace coup by a senior Assad officer who then makes efforts to forge peace between the factions and set the ground for democracy. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/151 "2013-06-18T07:07:37Z")
… or democracies. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/152 "2013-06-18T10:37:42Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Oh, so then if Prince Charles converted to Judaism or Islam that wouldn’t cause any issues in the UK? > > Beyond that, there are plenty of European countries which have an “official preference” of one religion over others. > > Am I talking to the same person who insisted that the violence in Iraq was over “theology”? > > You seem to have rather contradictory viewpoints. The intention is to create a country where people can be any religion and not feel victimized by the law, or other people. Where no group is in power oppressing another. Where laws are based on secular values rather than “God said…”. Regarding the UK and Israel, both are products of history. I think most people in the UK could agree that, if we were setting the country up again, we wouldn’t bother with an official religion. But we’re approaching 400 years of this system, and it works in practice because C of E Christianity is heavily diluted and the majority of people see a clear distinction between religion and politics, so few see a reason to change it. I don’t see what Iraq has to do with it. Is it difficult, in your opinion, to reconcile the views that a particular country is being torn apart by religious and sectarian violence, and that countries should keep religion and sectarianism out of official business? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/153 "2013-06-18T13:06:17Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > For a second there I thought you we referring to Palestine. Mostly because that is a perfect example of what elucidator is talking about. Really? Israel wants Hamas to be running Gaza? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/154 "2013-06-18T13:26:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Oh, so then if Prince Charles converted to Judaism or Islam that wouldn’t cause any issues in the UK? If he did he would have removed himself from the Constitutional Line of Succession and his eldest son would be next in line. Or if King, like the whole Edward/Wallis thing, he’d abdicate. I’m sure the newspapers would have a field day and people would have all kinds of stongly held opinions but politically it would be of no practical significance. In the UK we might tick a religious box of some sort on the census forms but by and large we don’t take religious stuff as seriously as the USA does. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/155 "2013-06-18T14:29:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It was primarily a bombing campaign so once again we leaned heavily on the nation that has all the cool toys for doing that. > But among countries that provided planes are Italy, the UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Denmark and the Netherlands. It was primarily a peacekeeping exercise. IFOR/KFOR was a European (with Canadian contribution) NATO peacekeeping exercise conducted without US ground forces - preceded by a US-led bombing campaign. Bombing the fuck out of shit was the easier part. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/156 "2013-06-18T14:37:44Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It was primarily a peacekeeping exercise. > > IFOR/KFOR was a European (with Canadian contribution) NATO peacekeeping exercise conducted without US ground forces - preceded by a US-led bombing campaign. > > Bombing the fuck out of shit was the easier part. I agree. I was responding to the point of why the US had to get involved. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/157 "2013-06-19T00:36:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Yes, of course it was, that was why I said “other than”. No, Ottoman script didn’t use the Arabic alphabet anymore than modern Russians use the Roman alphabet. Have you ever seen Ottoman script? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/158 "2013-06-19T02:50:08Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > The intention is to create a country where people can be any religion and not feel victimized by the law, or other people. Where no group is in power oppressing another. Where laws are based on secular values rather than “God said…”. You certainly don’t have to be a “secular” country for that to be true. Lots of countries that aren’t “secular” and have no separation of Church and State would fit your definition. So basically, then you’d have no problem with countries in the Middle East becoming Muslim democracies the way many countries in Europe are Christian democracies. Correct? > [@](#): > > I don’t see what Iraq has to do with it. Is it difficult, in your opinion, to reconcile the views that a particular country is being torn apart by religious and sectarian violence, and that countries should keep religion and sectarianism out of official business? Er… you’re the one who foolishly claimed that the violence between “the Sunnis and the Shiites” in “Iraq” was “over theology.” That is as moronic as insisting that the hatred between Russians and Poles, Serbs and Croats, Irish Protestants and Irish Catholics is “over theology.” Actually, on second thought it even stupider, because the idea that there’s this massive hatred between “Sunnis and Shiites” in Iraq is a perfect example of how little most westerners understand about this country they invaded and spent over a decade trying to break to their will. There is a huge amount of violence between Shia Arabs and Sunni Arabs, but very little violence or hatred between Shia Arabs and the Kurds(who are almost to the man Sunnis) while the Sunni Kurds and Sunni Arabs hate each other. What it’s about is we’re seeing the aftermath of an dictatorship’s collapse and the people who were seen as being favored by the dictator(the Sunni Arabs) are fighting the people oppressed by said dictators(the Sunni Kurds and the Shia Arabs).\* It’s very much like the hatred between the Tutsis and the Hutus where the people who viewed themselves as the victims of European colonialists attempted to slaughter those they saw as the toadies of colonialism. \*. This is a very simplified version of the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/159 "2013-06-19T02:51:10Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > If he did he would have removed himself from the Constitutional Line of Succession and his eldest son would be next in line. Or if King, like the whole Edward/Wallis thing, he’d abdicate. > > I’m sure the newspapers would have a field day and people would have all kinds of stongly held opinions but politically it would be of no practical significance. > > In the UK we might tick a religious box of some sort on the census forms but by and large we don’t take religious stuff as seriously as the USA does. Agreed. The point is non-secular government does not equal theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941/160 "2013-06-19T03:11:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So basically, then you’d have no problem with countries in the Middle East becoming Muslim democracies the way many countries in Europe are Christian democracies. Forgive my ignorance, but which countries are Muslim democracies? Iran recently had an election, but the candidates were carefully selected by the ruling religious folks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-to-provide-military-assistance-to-syrian-rebels/660941.md?page=9)