# U.S. v European politics **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631 "2012-01-25T20:08:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/62 "2012-02-01T15:34:25Z")
> [@Takeo](#): > > Looking at it now, we, Europeans would be better off with German rule than with today’s jewish-plutocrat-ruled world. > > 1. :dubious: Is that a Heil Hitler sign-off there? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/63 "2012-02-01T16:48:46Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > :dubious: Is that a Heil Hitler sign-off there? Of course it is. Standard Nazi code. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/64 "2012-02-01T17:30:05Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > :dubious: Is that a Heil Hitler sign-off there? [**Nazi numerical code**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_symbolism), Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > ``` > • 18, code for Adolf Hitler. The number comes from the position of the letters in the alphabet: A = 1, H = 8.[14] > • 88, code for Heil Hitler. Again the number comes from the position of the letter H in the Latin alphabet.[15] > • 14, from the Fourteen Words coined by David Lane: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.[16] > > ``` > > 14 and 88 are sometimes combined with each other (i.e. 14/88, 8814, 1488). ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/65 "2012-02-01T17:56:51Z")
> [@Takeo](#): > > Hi, > > One thing that the Americanese (I am using the degrading -ese ending on purpose) must learn about Europe: no-one here, repeat: no-one (except for some loony politicians) respect the Americanese. Europeans fear them yes, as does the rest of the world. But what US citizens will NEVER understand is that fear has nothing to do with respect. > > Now don’t give me any WW2 bullshit. Looking at it now, we, Europeans would be better off with German rule than with today’s jewish-plutocrat-ruled world. > > 1. Oy vey! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/66 "2012-02-01T23:04:15Z")
Mitt Romney isn’t jewish. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/67 "2012-02-01T23:35:33Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I read a great book called “[the Party is over](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Partys-Over-Blueprint-Revolution-Societas/dp/0907845517/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327966731&sr=1-7)” that proposed replacing the the House of Commons with a jury system, keeping the Lords unelected by appointed on a rolling basis, and making the Monarchy elected and for the monarch to be sort of like a chief executive of the government. Made perfect sense to me (the sole reviewer on Amazon didn’t seem to think so though). I find the hostile reviewer’s critique of a jury system convincing, actually. Sorry. [Party's Over: Blueprint for a Very English Revolution (Societas): Amazon.co.uk: Sutherland, Keith: 9780907845515: Books](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Partys-Over-Blueprint-Revolution-Societas/dp/0907845517/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327966731&sr=1-7&tag=vig-21) > [@](#): > > His random-selected House of Commons “jury” will have no power to decide what to discuss, it won’t even do any discussing, it only votes (like a court jury) on what is put to it by ministers and Lords Advocates who are appointed from the great/good “distinguished” careerist you know the sort of people I mean. > [@Takeo](#): > > Hi, > > One thing that the Americanese (I am using the degrading -ese ending on purpose) must learn about Europe: no-one here, repeat: no-one (except for some loony politicians) respect the Americanese. Europeans fear them yes, as does the rest of the world. But what US citizens will NEVER understand is that fear has nothing to do with respect. With you so far. > [@](#): > > Now don’t give me any WW2 bullshit. Looking at it now, we, Europeans would be better off with German rule than with today’s jewish-plutocrat-ruled world. > > 1. You would really prefer cultural extermination and enforced Germanization over the plutocracy of international bankers? Because I think one is harder to recover from than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/68 "2012-02-01T23:55:18Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I find the hostile reviewer’s critique of a jury system convincing, actually. Sorry. [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Partys-Over-Blueprint-Revolution-Societas/dp/0907845517/ref=sr\_1\_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327966731&sr=1-7&tag=vig-21](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Partys-Over-Blueprint-Revolution-Societas/dp/0907845517/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327966731&sr=1-7&tag=vig-21) Well as someone who has actually read the book, I don’t. So there. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/69 "2012-02-02T05:27:37Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Counting Europe as a whole, we greatly exceed the US in terms of population. Add the similar policies espoused by other extra-European ‘western’ nations like Australia, Canada, NZ, and I think we can safely say it is the US that is far right compared to the norm, rather than the rest of us being far left. And what if you factor in all the world, considering the “West” makes up, what 1/6 of the world’s population? Only on some issues is America more conservative. America has very high corporate tax rates, some of the most libertine abortion laws in the world, tremendous government subsidies, a powerful anti-nuclear power movement, no real extremnist party, less racism, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/70 "2012-02-02T09:40:46Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Only on some issues is America more conservative. America has very high corporate tax rates, some of the most libertine abortion laws in the world, tremendous government subsidies, a powerful anti-nuclear power movement, no real extremnist party, less racism, and so on. Apart from the anti-nuclear movement part, every bit of that statement was wrong. Seriously **Qin** , are you out to get the “ideological to the exclusion of the fact” award? Because if you are I’m sure **Shodan** will happily pass it on to you. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/71 "2012-02-03T01:10:00Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Apart from the anti-nuclear movement part, every bit of that statement was wrong. Seriously **Qin** , are you out to get the “ideological to the exclusion of the fact” award? Because if you are I’m sure **Shodan** will happily pass it on to you. No it is not. For starters with abortion, Germany mandate counseling before one gets an abortion while Ireland and Poland bans them. Corporate tax rates, see this chart: [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income\_Taxes\_By\_Country.svg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg) In France the National Front regularly gets 10 to 20% of the vote while the BNP has two seats in the European Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/72 "2012-02-03T03:59:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In France the National Front regularly gets 10 to 20% of the vote while the BNP has two seats in the European Parliament. Right, but that’s perhaps less about extremism and more about the US’s two-party culture. In the USA, the radical racists and conspiracy theorists tend to run under the Democratic or Republican banners rather than their own parties, so they can co-opt non-extremist votes. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/73 "2012-02-03T06:42:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Germany mandate counseling before one gets an abortion Wouldn’t “taking care of people’s mental health” be socialism, by American definitions? Now it’s a right-wing thing? Is the right-wing part the “making sure that a woman who gets an abortion wants it and is not being forced to get one”? Is requiring counseling for people voluntarily giving up children, or for people whose custody has been taken away by the courts, also a right-wing thing? Is providing counseling to people who’ve lost a child to accident or illness also right-wing now? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/74 "2012-02-03T09:52:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No it is not. For starters with abortion, Germany mandate counseling before one gets an abortion while Ireland and Poland bans them. > > Corporate tax rates, see this chart: [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income\_Taxes\_By\_Country.svg](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg) > > In France the National Front regularly gets 10 to 20% of the vote while the BNP has two seats in the European Parliament. You can cite three countries in Europe out of 27 countries that have restrictions around abortion and you’re claiming that the US is more “libertine” (loaded word if I ever heard one) on the issue? How about the whole of Scandinavia, the Netherlands, UK and Spain which all have extremely relaxed laws around abortion and make it as easy as possible for someone to get one without having to demonstrate they have a sound reason? Want an abortion? Are you an adult? Sign here and we’ll bring out the pills. Interestingly enough availability of abortion has been theorised by a [number of different sources](http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=correlation+abortion+crime&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart) to have an impact on crime levels in society. So, if you can look past any personal feelings you have about someone having an abortion because you don’t approve of it, the facts seem to demonstrate that it’s good for society that people can. As for your chart “proving” corporation tax is lower - my interpretation of the date puts the US’s corporation tax rate at around 38% ([Tax rates.cc](http://www.taxrates.cc/html/us-tax-rates.html) confirms that in 2011 the corporate tax rate was 35%), so that means you’ve essentially demonstrated that you’re wrong with your own cite as every country bar Japan has a lower corporate tax rate than the US. Regardless, corporate tax rates don’t correlate to economic strength. Greece and Ireland in that chart have lower corporate tax rates than Germany but the latter is by far and away the stronger economy. The BNP has two seats in the British parliament out of a total of 550, giving it a vote share of around 0.36%. If you want to argue that’s a sign that the UK, or indeed anywhere in the EU, is more right leaning in its politics than the US, good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/75 "2012-02-03T11:45:12Z")
**Illuminatiprimus** , in the thread on “[abortion is more common in countries where it is banned](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=639256)” (GD) there was someone indicating that [Spain bans abortions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14696171&postcount=23); apparently having something [regulated](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14696171&postcount=23) in any fashion (in ways which are not the ones the poster thought) counts as having it banned. By those definitions, marriage is banned in every country… Sadly and as it usually happens as soon as the A-word is mentioned, the thread got derailed and sank somewhere in the vicinity of the Solomon Islands. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/76 "2012-02-03T11:47:26Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > The BNP has two seats in the British parliament out of a total of 550, giving it a vote share of around 0.36%. If you want to argue that’s a sign that the UK, or indeed anywhere in the EU, is more right leaning in its politics than the US, good luck. European parliament, not British Parliament, just to be clear. (I know you know this, but Qin needs hand-holding with this stuff) ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/77 "2012-02-03T12:03:27Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In France the National Front regularly gets 10 to 20% of the vote while the BNP has two seats in the European Parliament. Well, to be fair, we don’t have a Republican Party dog-whistling for the white racist vote this side of the pond. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/78 "2012-02-03T12:27:49Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Well, to be fair, we don’t have a Republican Party dog-whistling for the white racist vote this side of the pond. No, but you have the Conservative party, which flat-out says that it is the “Conservative and **Unionist** ” party! It admits to its’ anti-Irish racism right in its’ name! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/79 "2012-02-03T12:30:49Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > No, but you have the Conservative party, which flat-out says that it is the “Conservative and **Unionist** ” party! It admits to its’ anti-Irish racism right in its’ name! I suspect you’re being facetious, but Unionism is not anti-Irish racism. (Hijack ahoy!) ETA: they also changed their name to drop the Unionist bit. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/80 "2012-02-03T12:33:08Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > No, but you have the Conservative party, which flat-out says that it is the “Conservative and **Unionist** ” party! It admits to its’ anti-Irish racism right in its’ name! 1912 called. It wants its politics back. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631/81 "2012-02-03T12:53:32Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > European parliament, not British Parliament, just to be clear. (I know you know this, but Qin needs hand-holding with this stuff) Whoops - should have spotted that (I’m pretty sure I would have remembered if a BNP member got to Parliament but just assumed Qin knew what he was talking about :smack:) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-v-european-politics/610631.md?page=5)