# U.S. vs U.K. Rock and Roll -- No Contest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299 "2000-07-01T20:11:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/41 "2000-07-04T12:36:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > **HomeSlice, you are loopy. šŸ˜‰ Iā€™ll put Stevie Ray Vaughn up against your boy Clapton any day. (See, America can beat Clapton with one of our second-teamers).** Iā€™ll see your **Stevie Ray Vaughn** , and Iā€™ll raise you one **David Gilmoure (GB)** and a **Mark Knopfler (GB)** šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/42 "2000-07-04T15:35:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zuma \* > \*\* > For example, the who is a great band, they pulled off the british invasion thing brilliantly, and moved on to be one of the kings of 70s arena rock. They were excellent at both, and rivaled the stones and the beatles in this regard. but they were hardly innovative, and their influence was negligable. > \*\* I beg to differ. The Who were hugely innovative and influential. Neither punk nor grunge could have existed without the Who. People often forget this, but the Who pioneered the use of synthesizers. This may be good or bad depending on your point of view, but judging from the popularity of synthesizers today it was certainly influential. John Entwistleā€™s revolutionary bass work also should not be underestimated. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/43 "2000-07-04T17:42:01Z")
I wouldnā€™t ever call Stevie Ray Vaughn a second teamer, may the guitar gods strike down anyone who would suggest such sacriledgeā€¦ Since I am here in sunny Canada I can sit on the fence and watch this debateā€¦ we Canadians have our fair share of talent as well and I spent quite a while last night giving a course in Canadian Music Appreciation to one of my southern friendsā€¦ he was blown away as he had never heard The Tragicaly Hip or Wide Mouth Masonā€¦ I said I would be back with the results of the radio contestā€¦ they just finished playing The Wall in itā€™s entirety which means that it was voted the greatest rock album by the fair citizens of Edmonton. It came down to Pink Floyd and The Eagles ā€œHotel Californiaā€. This is one of those debates that merely comes down to personal preferences, the planet is full of incredible musicians and the greatest band might be one you havenā€™t even heard yetā€¦ I am now listening to the Guess Whoā€™s ā€œAmerican Womanā€ and I would put them up against anyoneā€¦ Canada rocks with the best of themā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/44 "2000-07-04T19:09:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > **What no The Clash !!! (London Calling being Rolling Stoneā€™s ā€˜Album of the 80ā€™sā€™).** Nit to pick: the Clash were great and all, but they followed the Ramonesā€™ footsteps. > [@](#): > > We played there [London] for the first time on July 4, 1976, while in America they were celebrating the bicentennial. Outside the Round House during sound check, these cool-looking guys were hanging around. They said they were a band calling themselves the Clash, but that they were still just rehearsing and didnā€™t feel they were virtuosic enough to play in public. > ā€œAre you kidding?ā€ said Johnny [Ramone]. ā€œI hope youā€™re coming tonight. Weā€™re lousy. We canā€™t play. If you wait until you can play, youā€™ll be too old to get up there. We stink, really. But itā€™s great.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/45 "2000-07-04T19:14:57Z")
Another nit to pick from earlier on: The Talking Heads are certainly an American band, but David Byrne was born in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/46 "2000-07-04T20:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > People often forget this, but the Who pioneered the use of synthesizers. This may be good or bad depending on your point of view, but judging from the popularity of synthesizers today it was certainly influential. Letā€™s not get carried away. The Zombies were probably the first band to make use of the synthesizer, and were arguably far more influential on New Wave acts than The Who. Letā€™s not forget The Doors, either, in this department. I stand by my earlier statement that The Who is an overrated band. And **Coldfire** , Iā€™ll see your David Gilmoure and Mark Knopfler, and raise you one **Duane Allman** (Macon, Georgia) and one **Brian Setzer** (Long Island). šŸ˜‰ The one thing I will concede to the Brits is their very impressive _per capita_ production of rock stars. The British are a very imitative race! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/47 "2000-07-04T21:37:39Z")
And the Zombies included one Colin Blunstone from erā€¦ where was it now Jethro Tull is hardly an imitation of anyone. Who got to Black Sabbath territory first? Any US act that Pink Floyd copied? The nation that gave the world rap accuses others of imitation, I love that!! Without the sampler US music would have been dead and buried long ago, as it is it just digs up the graves of past glory šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/48 "2000-07-04T21:58:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Who got to Black Sabbath territory first? **Alice Cooper** ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/49 "2000-07-04T22:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Any US act that Pink Floyd copied? I dunnoā€¦ A lot of their stuff sounds kinda **Doors** -y, with some added orchestrationā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2000, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/50 "2000-07-04T23:54:34Z")
Of course, this entire debate skips a very important fact, by its very nature: **Rush** are from Canada. So to make it a draw: US and UK rock are _both_ inferior to Canadian Rock šŸ˜ƒ Thereā€™s also my latest love, **The Tea Party** - Canuck as well. And Iā€™m _Dutch_, so one COULD argue Iā€™m the only impartial poster in this thread, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/51 "2000-07-05T00:55:59Z")
Pshaw! We can beat Canada with 49 states tied behind our back! Just from my own state of Georgia we have: [ul] [li]R.E.M.[/li][li]Little Richard[/li][li]Ray Charles[/li][li]The Allman Brothers[/li][li]The B52s[/li][li]James Brown[/li][li]The Black Crowes[/li][li]The Indigo Girls[/li][/ul] Iā€™d continue, but I felt I was beginning to stretch the point with that last entryā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/52 "2000-07-05T08:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Any US act that Pink Floyd copied? > > I dunnoā€¦ A lot of their stuff sounds kinda **Doors** -y, with some added orchestrationā€¦ \*\* Pink Floyd??? DOORSā€™y??? ---
**Author:** ![NiceGuyJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/niceguyjack/32/3069_2.png) [@NiceGuyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NiceGuyJack)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/53 "2000-07-05T08:27:41Z")
So far, I think we can conclude that the US musicians were the most influential in the 50ā€™s and the Brits in the 60ā€™s. The 70ā€™s were obviously dominated by the Swedish group ABBA and the 80ā€™s by the Irish group U2. The 90ā€™s? Hmmmā€¦Iā€™m stumped. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/54 "2000-07-05T13:38:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Pink Floyd??? DOORSā€™y??? Yeah, lyrically. They have that same sort of dreamy/druggy thing going on as well. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/55 "2000-07-05T16:57:53Z")
Sorry butIMHO Pink Floyd and Doors are totally differant. ref who got to Black Sabbath territory first. Alice Cooper was there as the Spiders in 1965 but nobody knew about it until 1971 by which time Black Sabbath were already into their third album and had burned themselves into the public consciousness. Sabbath were formed in 1968 but they were playing together under differant names long before that. Earth was one but there were earlier ones. It is pretty unlikely that Sabbath were influenced by Cooper as he didnā€™t emerge until after they had hit the big time. I would be surprised if Cooper can say the same as his breakthrough came after Sabbathā€™s and he must have seen what they were doing. Possibly his success came about as a result of their pioneering work but that is not to say he would not have done so anyway. Of course there were the Yardbirds who were around in 1965 and were having success.They were one step along the way. Like many human endeavers itā€™s likely that heavy rock came about as a result of near independant parallel developments. Check the following link for more ``` http://www.atmetal.com/history/part1.html ``` ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/56 "2000-07-05T20:55:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lamia \* > \*\* > I beg to differ. The Who were hugely innovative and influential. Neither punk nor grunge could have existed without the Who. People often forget this, but the Who pioneered the use of synthesizers. This may be good or bad depending on your point of view, but judging from the popularity of synthesizers today it was certainly influential. John Entwistleā€™s revolutionary bass work also should not be underestimated. > \*\* Uhhh. And donā€™t forget, the Who were vastly influenced by Link Wray. My god, where is everyoneā€™s sense of music history. Link Wray was the first musician to poke wholesin his amplifier to get that fuzzy electric guitar sound. He pioneered distortion. Not to mention surf music, rockabilly, and punk. Where the fuck would we be without Link. And the best part is heā€™s still around. I went and saw him here in SF last year. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2000, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/57 "2000-07-05T23:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > > Uhhh. And donā€™t forget, the Who were vastly influenced by Link Wray. My god, where is everyoneā€™s sense of music history. Link Wray was the first musician to poke wholesin his amplifier to get that fuzzy electric guitar sound. He pioneered distortion. Not to mention surf music, rockabilly, and punk. Where the fuck would we be without Link. And the best part is heā€™s still around. I went and saw him here in SF last year. \*\* Yes, I know Link Wray (well, not personally), but would not have thought to mention him since he did not have the chart successes of the other bands mentioned. He certainly is an innovative artist, although it is important to note that there were many pioneers in the area of distortion. Dave Davies was poking holes in his amp with a knitting needle when he was just a teenager practicing in his mumā€™s front room. I donā€™t know if he came up with this idea before Link Wray, but Iā€™m pretty sure he thought of it independently. Even Ray Davies says so. Speaking of the Davies brothers, the Kinks get my vote for most underrated British Invasion band. ---
**Author:** ![tak29813](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@tak29813](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tak29813)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/58 "2000-07-06T20:39:49Z")
I canā€™t believe the Brits have totally blown past Yes and King Crimson as far as influence. I have always been partial to ELP myself. (Bonus points if you own anything by Atomic Rooster or The Nice) For the US side, why has nobody mentioned Stevie Wonder? Too Motown? Also Michael Jackson owned the eighties. Disco was brutal, but it brought us some killer funk with Earth, Wind and Fire and the Ohio Players. Both of those bands had tremendous influence on popular music. To address the subject of The Who, we need to quantify our criteria. But by any measurement listed (chart success, longevity, concert tickets sold, drummers killed, on stage assaults of Abby Hoffman) they reign supreme. The kids are alright. Additionally their two films essentially helped to pave the way for comercial music videos, but thatā€™s a whole other argument. The US started it, the UK refined it, then we reinvented the genre. Thats just the way it goes. Look at Madonna, she started out as being from Jersey, now she wants to be from London, you can have her. BTW - Didnā€™t you used to be Procul Harum? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2000, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/59 "2000-07-06T23:54:47Z")
Well, Madonnaā€™s obviously in town because of the weather. Link Wray ā€“ excellent call and Iā€™d definately agree a really major influence. Yeah, the distinction between ā€˜influenceā€™ ā€˜refinementā€™ ā€˜dead drummerā€™sā€™ (donā€™t we win that one ?) and ā€˜popularityā€™ is pretty blurred here. Other UK bands not mentioned: Roxy Music Genesis (not my taste but hey) The Smithā€™s (the only ā€˜trulyā€™ original band of the 80ā€™s ā€“ maybe. Johnny Marrā€™s riffā€™s were damn excellent) Stone Roses (for fusing genreā€™s) Refinement bandsā€¦ PaulWeller/The Jam Primal Scream Portishead Massive Attack On The Who ā€“ I always liked the way they didnā€™t go down the clone-of-the-Rolling Stones-route. Would have been so easy to do. Townsend always kept the music and image distinct and I kind of admired him for that. I think people sometimes under value the 70ā€™s. To me it was the first time when music came at you from every direction. From Zeppelin to Abba from the Sex Pistols to Marvin Gaye (canā€™t believe you didnā€™t mention him) . The 70ā€™s was the era popular music diversified and grew. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2000, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299/60 "2000-07-07T14:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at Madonna, she started out as being from Jersey, now she wants to be from London, you can have her. Actually, sheā€™s from Bay City, Michigan, but your point is well-taken. London can have her. What is up with that bizarre accent sheā€™s invented for herself? As far as soul and R&B acts are concerned, thereā€™s no question the US is absolutely dominant, but I was under the impression we were limiting this debate to rock. I still say the Who is an overrated band. I would put the Kinks in my British top 5 before them. They were musically more creative, and more influential, though less commercially successful. Depends on your criteria I suppose. The Smiths were true originals, as you say London\_Calling. You might mention the Cure as well. (Hey waitā€¦Iā€™m making your argument for youā€¦) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-vs-u-k-rock-and-roll-no-contest/24299.md?page=4)