# U.S.: We've broken the back of the Iraq insurgency!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742 "2004-11-19T22:57:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/1 "2004-11-19T22:57:10Z")
**U.S. declares insurgency 'broken’** [By Rowan Scarborough THE WASHINGTON TIMES](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20041119-124401-8720r.htm) > [@](#): > > The top Marine officer in Iraq declared yesterday that victory in the battle of Fallujah has “broken the back” of the Iraqi insurgency, while another commander in the war on terror said Osama bin Laden is all but cut off from his terrorist operatives. > > The twin statements declare success on the two main war fronts — Iraq and Afghanistan — where the U.S. military is fighting a deadly insurgency and trying to create lasting democracies. > > Lt. Gen. John Sattler, who commands the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in Iraq, told Pentagon reporters that 11 days after invading Fallujah, the one-time insurgent stronghold is secure, but not yet safe. His ground troops were carrying out a “search-and-clear phase,” he said. > > Based on intelligence that shows Fallujah was an enemy command center, Gen. Sattler asserted, “We feel right now that we have … broken the back of the insurgency, and we have taken away this safe haven.” _ **I hereby proclaim today, November 19, 2004, to be V-I day!!!** _ 😃 Just one more turning point that will turn out not to be, like the toppling of the statue, the Gloat on the Boat, the capture of Saddam, the handover of “sovereignty”, re-establishment of various levels of electrical service, putting a Sunni general in charge of Fallujah last spring, dislodging al-Sadr from Najaf, and who knows what else. They can fool 51% of the American people, but they can’t fool objective reality. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/2 "2004-11-19T23:00:32Z")
Yeah I read that stuff earlier. Such bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/3 "2004-11-19T23:02:05Z")
As I’ve pointed out elsewhere (not on the dope)… The first rule of running a guerilla campaign deals with pitched battles. Namely, **don’t get into them**. Anybody who thinks that Falujah was the start, or the end, of _anything_… just wait. That’s my 2.3 cents and I’m stickin’ to it. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/4 "2004-11-19T23:04:42Z")
The best part is that if we can successfully subdue the local populace of the country we invaded and keep bin Laden out of the loop, all terrorism will be wiped out forever. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/5 "2004-11-19T23:15:05Z")
one thing this whole deal has nearly accomplished is cure me of my news addiction. I used to be an absolute news junkie, watching several different cable news outlets daily, as well as reading the paper cover to cover (well, I _did_ skip the sports section), online news sources (minimum 2) reading damn near everything. IN the words of Jon Stewart… “not so much anymore”. can’t stand the lies. can’t stand the horrors. I remember so clearly asking, almost a year ago "just who the hell thinks that taking Iraq is gonna be a couple of weeks fighting, then flowers and parades. Sadly, apparently 51% of the US voting public did. what boggles my mind is all those folks assuring me that I was so wrong, as still stuck w/their heads in the Iraqi sand (no doubt looking for those WoMD). I tell you, I never wanted to be wrong so badly in my life. I get no pleasure at all from being able to say “told ya so”. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/6 "2004-11-19T23:27:57Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I tell you, I never wanted to be wrong so badly in my life. I get no pleasure at all from being able to say “told ya so”. I kind of don’t mind there not being WMDs, and am extremely happy that there were none used. I do really hope you’re all wrong and the insurgency is broken. I really doubt it, but I’d love to be so wrong on this. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/7 "2004-11-20T00:12:14Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I kind of don’t mind there not being WMDs, and am extremely happy that there were none used. > > I do really hope you’re all wrong and the insurgency is broken. I really doubt it, but I’d love to be so wrong on this. Yeah, me too. If the Redsocks can win the World Series, god-damnit, maybe out military can win a war against guerilla insurgents and be an effective tool against terror. And if not? Hey, there’s always next year, right? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/8 "2004-11-20T00:13:57Z")
> [@wring](#): > > one thing this whole deal has nearly accomplished is cure me of my news addiction. I used to be an absolute news junkie, watching several different cable news outlets daily, as well as reading the paper cover to cover (well, I _did_ skip the sports section), online news sources (minimum 2) reading damn near everything. > > IN the words of Jon Stewart… “not so much anymore”. > > can’t stand the lies. can’t stand the horrors. > > I remember so clearly asking, almost a year ago "just who the hell thinks that taking Iraq is gonna be a couple of weeks fighting, then flowers and parades. Sadly, apparently 51% of the US voting public did. > > what boggles my mind is all those folks assuring me that I was so wrong, as still stuck w/their heads in the Iraqi sand (no doubt looking for those WoMD). I tell you, I never wanted to be wrong so badly in my life. I get no pleasure at all from being able to say “told ya so”. Same here. I barely keep up with the news since the election. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/9 "2004-11-20T00:27:47Z")
I’m sure glad that the insurgents didn’t decide to move on and fight another day when the offensive was announced in advance of it taking place. They could have taken their munitions and everything… just think. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/10 "2004-11-20T01:31:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > **U.S. declares insurgency 'broken’** > > They can fool 51% of the American people, but they can’t fool objective reality. You make a mistake in thinking that all Bush voters are pro-Iraq war or swallow how the war is spun hook, line, and sinker. Or that all Kerry voters are all anti-Iraq war and don’t even nibble at the bait. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/11 "2004-11-20T01:52:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > _ **I hereby proclaim today, November 19, 2004, to be V-I day!!!** _ Followed in the coming months (years?), by V-II day, V-III day, V-IV day, and V-V day. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/12 "2004-11-20T01:59:21Z")
I suppose time will tell how much of the back is actually broken. Probably the kindest thing you could say about the comment is that it’s optimistic… ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/13 "2004-11-20T02:00:07Z")
Is it time to break out that footage from Dubya and his _Mission Accomplished_ photo op yet? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/14 "2004-11-20T02:08:47Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > And if not? Hey, there’s always next year, right? And the year after that. And the year after that. > [@](#): > > I see light at the end of the tunnel. - Walt W. Rostow, National Security Adviser, Dec. 1967 - - about a month before the Tet offensive of 1968 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/15 "2004-11-20T02:32:02Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > You make a mistake in thinking that all Bush voters are pro-Iraq war or swallow how the war is spun hook, line, and sinker. Or that all Kerry voters are all anti-Iraq war and don’t even nibble at the bait. You make a mistake in assuming I’m talking just about the war, when I talk about people being fooled. The war isn’t the only arena in which objective reality will have the final word. From the dollar to the climate, reality’s payback awaits. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/16 "2004-11-20T02:37:18Z")
As **Colibri** points out, yeah I remember when America finally “turned the corner” in the Vietnam War. It happened many times too. Hey, remember when we “turned the corner” on the war on drugs? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/17 "2004-11-20T03:55:25Z")
The problem with this kind of fighting is, there is no central command, no high command. In a conventional war, you take the enemy capital, you force the enemy leader or generals to surrender, it’s over. In Iraq, there is no capital or high command for the insurgents. Every group can and will act independently without getting orders from higher up. Taking Fallujah will probably have no impact at all. The insurgents will just set up shop somewhere else. To even begin to win, you have to convince the rest of the country that the insurgents are the Bad Guys. You have to get Iraq to turn against them. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/18 "2004-11-20T03:56:47Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Hey, remember when we “turned the corner” on the war on drugs? Hey, we’ve turned that corner so many times we’re running up our own asses. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/19 "2004-11-20T04:04:38Z")
[BBC news report](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4015909.stm) > [@](#): > > The attacks by Sunni insurgents in Mosul, Baquba and elsewhere in Iraq suggest that the insurgency is likely to continue despite the victory of US and Iraqi Government forces in Falluja. > … > Elsewhere it is clear that some insurgents left Falluja before the US-led assault and have embarked upon a co-ordinated series of attacks in Baquba, Suweira and Mosul. > > **This implies a reasonably sophisticated level of centralised command** > … > the US simply doesn’t have sufficient troops on the ground to maintain order in several key cities at once > … ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2004, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742/20 "2004-11-20T04:57:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You make a mistake in assuming I’m talking just about the war, when I talk about people being fooled. The war isn’t the only arena in which objective reality will have the final word. From the dollar to the climate, reality’s payback awaits. Any ‘true believer’ is a fool not matter Red or Blue. If you don’t think that holds true for Kerry voters, then you’ve done fooled yourself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/u-s-weve-broken-the-back-of-the-iraq-insurgency/275742.md?page=2)