# UAW on strike (9/15/2023)(tentative deal 10/25/2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 15, 2023, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151 "2023-09-15T08:19:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/1 "2023-09-15T08:19:20Z")
As of midnight, the UAW are striking against Ford, Chrysler, and GM, the first time in history the union has struck all three at once. The union is seeking a 40% raise over the next four years, the return of traditional pension programs and retiree healthcare which were eliminated for new hires in 2007, a four-day work week, and a plan for workers who make parts for gasoline cars to transition to working on electrics, among other things. > **[September 15, 2023 United Auto Workers go on strike](https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/strike-uaw-stellantis-ford-09-15-23)** > > The United Auto Workers union is on strike against General Motors, Ford and Stellantis, the first time in its history that it has struck all three of America's unionized automakers at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/2 "2023-09-15T14:44:19Z")
The part I like is having a plan to train workers to build the new EVs. I’ve never worked in manufacturing but imagine it best to pay employees for that training. I know what i wrote is idealistic of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/3 "2023-09-15T14:50:24Z")
I think they worry that the company could try to use switching to EVs as a way to ditch the old (better-paid) gas-car workers. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/4 "2023-09-15T14:54:10Z")
The reports I keep hearing is that this is a “historic” event. I’m not sure why. There have been many previous UAW strikes. Anyone know what’s historic about it? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/5 "2023-09-15T15:00:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The reports I keep hearing is that this is a “historic” event. I’m not sure why. There have been many previous UAW strikes. Anyone know what’s historic about it? I believe it’s in reference to “the first time in history the union has struck all three at once”. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2023, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/6 "2023-09-15T21:45:17Z")
Correct. The usual tactic has been to hamstring one until it capitulates, then use that agreement as leverage against the others. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/7 "2023-09-16T03:09:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The union is seeking a 40% raise over the next four years Seems like they’ve got it coming: [![](https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/blog_auto_hourly_pay.jpg) ](https://jabberwocking.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/blog_auto_hourly_pay.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/8 "2023-09-16T10:53:58Z")
My opinion about the strike. It was a handful of years ago that the American taxpayer bailed out the auto industry. I hear the companies are back to making record profits. If that’s the case, then the employees should share in that. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/9 "2023-09-16T14:58:32Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I think they worry that the company could try to use switching to EVs as a way to ditch the old (better-paid) gas-car workers. Electric vehicles are simpler mechanically than ICE ones. The engines are simpler, lacking transmissions, cylinder heads and combustion chambers. So fewer workers are needed to assemble the electric motors and they’ll need different skills. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/10 "2023-09-23T00:27:36Z")
> **[Biden to walk the picket line in Michigan to support UAW strikers | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/22/politics/joe-biden-michigan-trip-uaw/index.html)** > > President Joe Biden will travel to Michigan on Tuesday and walk the picket line with members of the United Auto Workers union, he announced Friday, a trip that comes after the president faced political pressure to ramp up his public support for the... ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/11 "2023-09-23T01:00:10Z")
Tesla makes 41.6 cars per worker. Couldn’t find Ford or GM, but VW is at 28. Tesla is just about the only car maker making a reasonable profit on EVs. Ford is losing about $790 per EV sold. The automakers were counting on the eventual lower manufacturing cost of EVs because they require fewer assembly steps and fewer workers. So if the UAW gets job guarantees, how are these companies supposed to compete with Tesla? Especially after they get those large raises? Honestly confused about this. Joe Biden demands that the EV transition happen, and that it must be done with American companies. These strikes would seem to put all that at risk, yet he fully supports them and is helping them extract maximum concessions from the auto companies. What am I missing? Labor makes up 15-25% of the cost of a car. On a $50,000 EV, that could be $10,000. If labor costs go up 50% (35% raise plus increased benefits - probably a low estimate), that will add $5,000 to the price of cars from the big 3 automakers, who are already at a large disadvantage because of legacy pension and healthcare costs compared to newer automakers. This seems likely to delay the transition to EVs, or stall it out completely. That and higher interest rates due to inflation from all the spending going on. Biden hates Musk and Tesla, but these actions are bound to strengthen Tesla against the competition. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/12 "2023-09-23T01:12:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > that will add $5,000 to the price of cars Or it could not do that. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/13 "2023-09-23T01:13:37Z")
How would you avoid that? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/14 "2023-09-23T01:16:12Z")
Lower profits, fewer stock buybacks, less executive waste. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/15 "2023-09-23T01:22:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Ford is losing about $790 per EV sold. Try $60,000: > **[Ford Model E Division Lost $60K on Every Electric Vehicle They Sold in Q1 2023](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-model-e-division-lost-60k-on-every-electric-vehicle-it-sold-in-the-first-quarter-214411.html)** > > Ford reported its first-quarter financials for 2023, showing that the losses at its 'Model e' EV division are widening. Specifically, the ... Ford makes it easy because they put all their EV sales into a separate division (Ford Model e). Their EBIT margin is -102%. Big 3 needs to fix a lot more than labor to be profitable with their EV offerings. Though the labor doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/16 "2023-10-26T02:35:47Z")
> **[Autoworkers reach a deal with Ford, a breakthrough toward ending strikes...](https://apnews.com/article/auto-workers-strikes-ford-general-motors-stellantis-08a81503d72e44d4efa40549f684d5a2)** > > The United Auto Workers union says it has reached a tentative contract agreement with Ford that could be a breakthrough to end the nearly 6-week-old strikes against Detroit automakers. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/17 "2023-10-26T18:47:33Z")
The automakers have a big EV problem. They can’t make them cheap enough for the mass market. There was a $5 billion consortium to create a $25K EV, and it just failed. > **[Honda Abandons Partnership with GM, Citing Challenges in Producing Cheap...](https://techstory.in/honda-abandons-partnership-with-gm-citing-challenges-in-producing-cheap-electric-cars/)** > > Honda and GM end budget EV partnership, leaving affordable electric vehicle plans in doubt for North America, South America, and China Historically, about 25% of new cars were $25,000 or under. The average price of an EV is about double that, and the cheapest EVs are just under $30,000 for base models. And the automakers apparently do not know how to lower prices. As it is, they are losing money on every EV sold - except for Tesla… ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/18 "2023-10-26T19:33:42Z")
“Under $25,000” may be true _historically_ but I don’t think that’s the case today. I think in the US very few new cars are priced to sell under that and the average price of a new car is well above that. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/19 "2023-10-26T19:39:45Z")
That’s true today. There’s been a collapse in sales of under-$25,000 cars since the pandemic. Maybe inflation and supply chain issues have pushed the normally under-$25,000 cars over $25,000, or maybe poorer folks just can’t afford cars at all now. Inflation and housing prices and high interest rates may be killing the bottom of the car market. That would also explain why used cars are holding their value better these days. None of those explanations bode well for sales of \>$35,000 EVs. To bring this back on subject, substantially higher labor costs among unionized automakers is going to make this an even bigger problem for the big three, making the cost gap between them and Tesla worse. I don’t see how they survive in a world where they can’t sell ICE cars. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151/20 "2023-10-30T13:56:48Z")
> **[GM and the UAW come to tentative agreement | CNN Business](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/30/business/gm-uaw-tentative-agreement/index.html)** > > General Motors and the United Auto Workers Thus there are tentative deals with all three of the traditional unionized US manufacturers. [The union announced its first deal, with Ford, this past Wednesday, and then announced a deal with Stellantis on Saturday night.] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uaw-on-strike-9-15-2023-tentative-deal-10-25-2023/990151.md?page=2)