# Uber Uber Alles **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105 "2015-03-03T17:23:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/61 "2015-03-04T00:28:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No. I agree whole-heartedly with **Smapti** on this one: Uber is a criminal enterprise that seeks to provide transportation services without going thru established procedures or rules. I am very happy that my state (Nevada) shut them down. Fuck Uber. If they want to play, play by the rules like everyone else does. See, if I lived in Las Vegas I might agree too because the taxi service is great there. That’s because The Powers That Be there realize that good taxi service is essential to the whole Vegas thing working and so have crafted the taxi regulations with an eye towards actually providing that. Unfortunately that’s not the case pretty much everywhere else in the country. (Although also the whole 24-hour nature of the town makes some of the peaking issues that Uber addresses also sorta moot.) I agree that calling services like Uber “carpooling” or “ridesharing” instead of a taxi service is a pretty flimsy fig leaf, but if they can get away with it they’re providing something most American cities are sorely lacking. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/62 "2015-03-04T00:48:20Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > See, if I lived in Las Vegas I might agree too because the taxi service is great there. That’s because The Powers That Be there realize that good taxi service is essential to the whole Vegas thing working and so have crafted the taxi regulations with an eye towards actually providing that. Unfortunately that’s not the case pretty much everywhere else in the country. (Although also the whole 24-hour nature of the town makes some of the peaking issues that Uber addresses also sorta moot.) > > I agree that calling services like Uber “carpooling” or “ridesharing” instead of a taxi service is a pretty flimsy fig leaf, but if they can get away with it they’re providing something most American cities are sorely lacking. So basically it boils down to “I don’t care how they go about it, so long as it benefits me?” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/63 "2015-03-04T00:51:56Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No. I agree whole-heartedly with **Smapti** on this one: Uber is a criminal enterprise that seeks to provide transportation services without going thru established procedures or rules. I am very happy that my state (Nevada) shut them down. Fuck Uber. If they want to play, play by the rules like everyone else does. Bo? Do you not remember living in ole T-town? Taxi’s here fucking suck. I live the NE part of town and all of the new hotspots are in midtown or over by the stadium. Try getting a cab there on a Friday or Saturday night. This thread has inspired me to look Uber up and, sure enough, we have it here! Next time I’m at College Town and need a ride home, guess who I’m gonna try out? ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/64 "2015-03-04T00:58:36Z")
I think the comparison to taxis is disingenuous: you can’t hail an Uber off the street. What they are very similar to is to livery vehicles which would get called in by radio. Which I guess are usually regulated as well, but differently (in NYC they aren’t metered for example, but operate on a zone system). Uber clearly is skirting the bounds of legality (and certain jurisdictions have explicitly banned them, which they generally comply with). If they’re successful, I think you’ll start to see municipalities where they’re popular being more open to the idea. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/65 "2015-03-04T01:14:57Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > So basically it boils down to “I don’t care how they go about it, so long as it benefits me?” I think what it boils down to is that the taxi regulations need to be loosened, but there’s major political obstacles to it. If the only way to get better peak demand taxi service is everybody involved agreeing to pretend services like Uber aren’t really taxi services, so be it. I think that’s exactly what’s happened that’s led to Uber’s position in most of their markets of being quasi-legal but pretty much tolerated. The entrenched taxi services and independent operators have huge amounts of money invested in the government-guaranteed monopoly and so will fight tooth and nail to prevent any other players from coming in. The local authorities, though, realize that companies like Uber provide an extremely useful service and so by basically pretending they’re something other than a taxi service, the people in the city benefit from the service and the taxi monopoly remains at least ostensibly intact. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/66 "2015-03-04T01:38:01Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > So basically it boils down to “I don’t care how they go about it, so long as it benefits me?” Pretty much. So? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/67 "2015-03-04T04:13:03Z")
On Valentine’s Day my brother’s car broke down in the Baltimore exurbs. He went with the tow truck, and I said I’d catch a cab back to my jeep. I called a taxi service, and they said they’d be there in 10-20 minutes. After 25 minutes of standing in the cold, I called back, and they said their guy was on his way. I called two other taxi services, but they didn’t do pick ups where I was. After another 15 minutes I called back. It was snowing now, and that’s why they couldn’t get to me, he explained. They were coming, honest. After \*another \*15 minutes, I said “screw it” and walked to a bar. They tried calling for taxis, but by now it was a damn-near blizzard and none of the taxi services were even picking up the phone. 90 more minutes pass, several more calls, and still no answer. I am wondering when the bar closes when someone suggests Uber. I download the app, and they tell me it’s surge pricing, so I’ll be paying 2.5 times the normal fare. I don’t give a sweet goddamn, I just want to get out of here. Jose was there in _seven minutes_, after 2 1/2 hours of waiting for a taxi. So yeah, Uber gets my vote. /used to drive taxi ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/68 "2015-03-04T04:27:14Z")
Where I live public transportation or a reliable taxi service is not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/69 "2015-03-04T06:45:45Z")
> [@furt](#): > > On Valentine’s Day my brother’s car broke down in the Baltimore exurbs. He went with the tow truck, and I said I’d catch a cab back to my jeep. I called a taxi service, and they said they’d be there in 10-20 minutes. After 25 minutes of standing in the cold, I called back, and they said their guy was on his way. I called two other taxi services, but they didn’t do pick ups where I was. > > After another 15 minutes I called back. It was snowing now, and that’s why they couldn’t get to me, he explained. They were coming, honest. After \*another \*15 minutes, I said “screw it” and walked to a bar. They tried calling for taxis, but by now it was a damn-near blizzard and none of the taxi services were even picking up the phone. You stood outside, in the freezing cold and then in the snow, for 55 minutes when there was a bar within sight that you could walk to in just a minute or two? Are you fucking brain damaged? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/70 "2015-03-04T09:18:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And that model is commonly referred to as “price gouging”, which we as a society decided sometime around a century ago it was _in the best interest of the consumer (that’s you!)_ to prohibit. Surge pricing is _not_ gouging. First, gouging only applies to essential services like food and water. Taxi service is not essential. Second, it is only gouging if the prices rise far above the cost of the product. Since the surge price is what it _takes_ to convince extra drivers to drive in the middle of the night or the snow or whatever, the cost to the consumer isn’t dramatically above the cost of the service. If I charge $10 for water bottles that I paid 5 cents for, that’s gouging. If I charge $10 for water that I produced via a desalinator powered by a generator that costs $5 to run, that’s not gouging. Last, gouging only applies during emergencies. Surge pricing can happen during both emergencies and non-emergencies, but Uber and Lyft have generally capped the multiplier during storms and other emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/71 "2015-03-04T11:08:25Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > That’s ridiculous. Because a woman in the U.S. talks about Uber-driver rape it doesn’t count? > > The entire story is predicated on her writing that Uber is sexist and misogamist, for which an Uber exec threatened her, with more than a whiff of blackmail, for saying so. > > No Indian reporter or blogger said so, so it can’t be true. What are you? Eight years old? Do you know what multibillion dollar established monopoly businesses with deep links to politicians and media establishments do when their precious, precious monopoly is threatened? Anything. _Anything_. Say anything. Pay anything. Take everything you read that portrays Uber in a bad light with a great big US sized serving spoon full of salt. It could be true. There is a very very good chance it’s not. The current anti-Uber PR campaign has real trouble coming up with anything solid so they are going for a couple of classic strategies. The first is _fear_. They are going straight for your amygdala. They know that people don’t like new. They find new scary. And they know that (strangely enough) people are afraid of new things even where rationally they should have exactly the same fear about old things. That’s why the rape thing works. Stupid people (go stand in front of a mirror) are terrified of rape by Uber drivers even though rape by taxi drivers is commonplace. Just because Uber is new, people are ready to believe fearful things about it that they discount in the familiar. The second strategy is sexism: they know that women don’t like taxis: they are dirty and unsafe (see: rape by taxi drivers, above). Uber cars are cleaner and the drivers are less anonymous due to the organisation of the ride through an app. So whaddaya know, a story just happens to pop up that Uber is run by sexist assholes. What an amazing coincidence that such a story would happen to arise; a story that plays so nicely into the exact narrative that anti Uber forces would like to relate! Golly gosh who would have thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/72 "2015-03-04T12:05:08Z")
The best gift Uber ever gave me was the knowledge of how to piss off **Smapti**. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/73 "2015-03-04T13:05:44Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Do you know what multibillion dollar established monopoly businesses with deep links to politicians and media establishments do when their precious, precious monopoly is threatened? It’s funny that you think that describes the companies that _aren’t_ Uber. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/74 "2015-03-04T13:50:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If they want to play, play by the rules like everyone else does. When the rules are designed to create a local monopoly, new entrants are precluded from playing by the rules. The taxi medallion model is old school. It works well to create a baseline of service, price reliability for the customer, and ensure enough business for the service to survive. It has many problems, though. Try to get a taxi in NYC when its raining. Call a taxi at bar closing time. Uber is new-school. It connects driver and passenger safely and securely. It allows for up-scaling supply during peak times. It is able to use technology to completely supplant the medallion model, and provide better service overall. The rules exist solely to make a functioning taxi service possible. There is no moral imperative to highly regulating taxi services, it’s simply necessary (or was necessary) in order to have a viable taxi service. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/75 "2015-03-04T14:38:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > When the rules are designed to create a local monopoly, new entrants are precluded from playing by the rules. > > The taxi medallion model is old school. It works well to create a baseline of service, price reliability for the customer, and ensure enough business for the service to survive. It has many problems, though. Try to get a taxi in NYC when its raining. Call a taxi at bar closing time. > > Uber is new-school. It connects driver and passenger safely and securely. It allows for up-scaling supply during peak times. It is able to use technology to completely supplant the medallion model, and provide better service overall. > > The rules exist solely to make a functioning taxi service possible. There is no moral imperative to highly regulating taxi services, it’s simply necessary (or was necessary) in order to have a viable taxi service. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/76 "2015-03-04T15:17:59Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Surge pricing is _not_ gouging. > > First, gouging only applies to essential services like food and water. Taxi service is not essential. > > Second, it is only gouging if the prices rise far above the cost of the product. Since the surge price is what it _takes_ to convince extra drivers to drive in the middle of the night or the snow or whatever, the cost to the consumer isn’t dramatically above the cost of the service. If I charge $10 for water bottles that I paid 5 cents for, that’s gouging. If I charge $10 for water that I produced via a desalinator powered by a generator that costs $5 to run, that’s not gouging. > > Last, gouging only applies during emergencies. Surge pricing can happen during both emergencies and non-emergencies, but Uber and Lyft have generally capped the multiplier during storms and other emergencies. nitpick - Gouging is not an act limited to emergencies, or to essential services. Gouging can happen at any time. _gouge verb [T] (CHEAT) › to charge someone far too much money for something done or something sold: We didn’t know the value of the foreign money, and the taxi driver gouged us_. > **[gouge](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gouge?q=gouging)** > > 1. to dig or cut into something in a rough or violent way: 2. to charge… ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/77 "2015-03-04T15:26:18Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > See, if I lived in Las Vegas I might agree too because the taxi service is great there. That’s because The Powers That Be there realize that good taxi service is essential to the whole Vegas thing working and so have crafted the taxi regulations with an eye towards actually providing that. Unfortunately that’s not the case pretty much everywhere else in the country. (Although also the whole 24-hour nature of the town makes some of the peaking issues that Uber addresses also sorta moot.) > > I agree that calling services like Uber “carpooling” or “ridesharing” instead of a taxi service is a pretty flimsy fig leaf, but if they can get away with it they’re providing something most American cities are sorely lacking. Eh, there are a lot of cabs but I wouldt call the service great. It’s a little sad they had to pass special regulations telling the drivers they can’t intentionally drive longer routes to jack up fares. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/78 "2015-03-04T15:37:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > First, gouging only applies to essential services like food and water. Taxi service is not essential. Taxi service _is_ an essential component of urban infrastructure. That’s why we have laws to regulate fares and safety practices and the number of taxis on the road - rules Uber doesn’t think it should have to follow. > [@](#): > > Second, it is only gouging if the prices rise far above the cost of the product. Like when Uber raised its rates by 800% during snow in NYC this winter? > [@](#): > > Since the surge price is what it _takes_ to convince extra drivers to drive in the middle of the night or the snow or whatever And how about when they deliberately keep drivers off the road to create scarsity and jack up the price, like they did in NYC on Valentine’s Day? > [@](#): > > Last, gouging only applies during emergencies. Surge pricing can happen during both emergencies and non-emergencies, but Uber and Lyft have generally capped the multiplier during storms and other emergencies. Saying you’ll “only” increase your prices by 280% during a disaster isn’t saying much, especially since they only put that rule in effect after getting caught octupling their rates. You need to disabuse yourself of this notion that Uber is some rag-tag mom-and-pop upstart boldly challenging Big Taxi. It’s a multi-billion dollar corporation that operates in 53 countries. It has far more money or power than any taxi company in the world and it wants to change the rules of the game and put its competitors out of business - and once it does, it’ll raise rates, reduce service, and engage in all the same manipulative behavior that anyone with no competition does. They’re the Walmart and the Comcast of the taxi business. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/79 "2015-03-04T15:58:08Z")
I’ve used Uber, and I loved it. This was all before the bad PR about the executives being evil. To me there are two reasons proposed against using Uber: The first, government regulations does not persuade me. I like the Uber model. The second is the privacy concerns and evil executive using Uber data to harass people they don’t like. This bothers me a whole bunch. Enough that I’ve stopped using Uber. So yes, I want an Uber-like substance. But I don’t want evil Uber. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/80 "2015-03-04T16:08:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Taxi service _is_ an essential component of urban infrastructure. That’s why we have laws to regulate fares and safety practices and the number of taxis on the road - rules Uber doesn’t think it should have to follow. Is anyone saying you shouldn’t be allowed to regulate fares or safety practices for Uber? The problem is when these taxi rules are used to simply restrict competition for fares. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=5)