# Uber Uber Alles **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105 "2015-03-03T17:23:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/101 "2015-03-04T21:08:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If you want to travel by air, you can’t call an unregulated airline and fly on them because you don’t want to use one of the “normal” airlines. That wasn’t my point. I’m talking about the pricing model, It isn’t anything particularly out of the ordinary. I can make the same point about hotel rooms. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/102 "2015-03-04T21:11:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What do you think “the old model of taxi service” _is_? > > Keep in mind, you can hail legal taxis with apps too. Guess what app you can also hail taxis through… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/103 "2015-03-04T22:15:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > nitpick - Gouging is not an act limited to emergencies, or to essential services. Gouging can happen at any time. The legal and technical sense differs from the colloquial sense. “Gouging” in the colloquial sense just means “they charged more than I would like, but not so much that I was willing to go without it”, so it’s not a very useful definition for these purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/104 "2015-03-04T22:28:50Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Taxi service _is_ an essential component of urban infrastructure. Those aren’t the same thing. A functioning transportation infrastructure is essential to a smoothly running city, and this may include taxis. But taxis are not essential on a short timescale. You can go a few days without heading to work or the bar. You can’t go a few days without food or water. > [@Smapti](#): > > Saying you’ll “only” increase your prices by 280% during a disaster isn’t saying much, especially since they only put that rule in effect after getting caught octupling their rates. There was nothing to “catch” since the rates are all known before you hail the cab. Yeah, they caught some PR flak since people thought 8x was high, and they reduced it to 2.8x. Big deal. Like **Novelty Bobble** said, it’s no different than paying more for a plane ticket during holidays. > [@Smapti](#): > > They’re the Walmart and the Comcast of the taxi business. Ah ha ha ha! Comcast _absolutely depends_ on regulation for their survival. That’s why they survive in spite of their horrendous customer satisfaction. They love onerous regulation, because it disproportionately affects upstarts relative to entrenched interests. Collusion between them and “competitors” handles the rest (or they just merge). The exact same is true of taxi companies. Taxis are almost universally loathed, but survive because they have crafted the regulations to protect their dying business model. There is no excuse for $500k taxi medallions. Car dealerships are another great example. They whine about Tesla skirting regulations, and make all kinds of noises about protecting the customer. Of course it’s all complete rubbish, and the regulations serve only to protect the dealerships. Like Comcast and taxis, that’s the only way they can survive in spite of their customers hating them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/105 "2015-03-04T22:39:40Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There is no excuse for $500k taxi medallions. It is in the public interest to limit the number of taxis on the road, for the health of the business as much as for the impact that taxis have on traffic. If the number of taxis in a major urban center were to swell to the maximum number that market demand required it would cause a severe impact on private traffic and severely impact the function and demand for mass transit. It’s worth noting that many cities that historically did _not_ have a medallion system (e.g. Seattle) have adopted one in recent years, specifically because renegade corporations like Uber have proven the necessity of limiting the number of hacks on the road. > [@](#): > > Comcast absolutely depends on regulation for their survival. That’s why they survive in spite of their horrendous customer satisfaction. They love onerous regulation, because it disproportionately affects upstarts relative to entrenched interests. And that’s why you’re going to be fucked once your beloved Uber drives the legitimate taxi industry out of business and pays lobbyists to rewrite the law in its benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/106 "2015-03-04T22:55:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If the number of taxis in a major urban center were to swell to the maximum number that market demand required it would cause a severe impact on private traffic and severely impact the function and demand for mass transit. People only use taxis when mass transit sucks. That’s an independent issue. Medallions aren’t the solution there; better mass transit is. Furthermore, as noted, ridesharing services allow easy scaling of the number of drivers. Drivers aren’t necessarily full-time, so you don’t have the problem of lots of excess supply all the time (i.e., empty cabs cruising around). Uber is also far more efficient to start with in terms of reducing idle cab time compared to normal taxis. Their service does a better job of connecting drivers to customers. > [@Smapti](#): > > And that’s why you’re going to be fucked once your beloved Uber drives the legitimate taxi industry out of business and pays lobbyists to rewrite the law in its benefit. Then I’ll root for some other disruptive company when that time comes around. It would be nice if there were some perfect solution to the regulatory capture problem, but there isn’t, and the next best thing is to support business models that skirt the existing regulations. In other words, we’re fucked now by existing taxis, and will probably be fucked in the future by Uber or whoever, but in the short term we actually have real competition and a legitimately good service. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/107 "2015-03-04T23:00:58Z")
**Smapti** , I don’t know who is forcing you to use Uber, but whoever it is you deserve an apology from them. That shit ain’t right. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/108 "2015-03-04T23:09:48Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **Smapti** , I don’t know who is forcing you to use Uber, but whoever it is you deserve an apology from them. That shit ain’t right. Yeah, I just can’t wrap my mind around people who are so intent on preventing other people from doing a thing that doesn’t affect anyone else in any way. If you don’t like Uber, don’t use it? How has Uber made your life worse? How is this an actual group of people that people listen to instead of a couple of ridiculed mentally infirm? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/109 "2015-03-04T23:11:14Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Yeah, I just can’t wrap my mind around people who are so intent on preventing other people from doing a thing that doesn’t affect anyone else in any way. If you don’t like Uber, don’t use it? How has Uber made your life worse? Runaway capitalism worsens all of our lives. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/110 "2015-03-04T23:16:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > **Smapti** , I don’t know who is forcing you to use Uber, but whoever it is you deserve an apology from them. That shit ain’t right. That’s puzzling me as well. All I’m bothered about is whether a service is a) at the right price point b) giving me what I want I do not care one jot whether the existing taxi model can be sustained. I’m assuming of course that vehicle inspection laws and driver licensing laws are being adhered to. If that is the main beef then fine, I’d be all for cracking down hard on any car and driver, uber or otherwise, that isn’t safe. Other than that…meh, good luck to them. If they can get me there at the right price then they’ll get my business. If they fail to do so then they won’t survive anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/111 "2015-03-04T23:17:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Runaway capitalism worsens all of our lives. As can protectionist and restrictive marketing legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/112 "2015-03-04T23:18:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Runaway capitalism worsens all of our lives. Please state specifically how Uber has worsened our lives. Remember, be specific. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/113 "2015-03-04T23:27:34Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If you want to travel by air, you can’t call an unregulated airline and fly on them because you don’t want to use one of the “normal” airlines. > > … > > Let me know when they start Uberair; I’m sure they’ll try and claim they aren’t in the business of flying people from one place to another. I think the situation with Uber and the taxi industry today actually isn’t too different from what was going on in the airline industry in the 70’s. Domestic flights were extremely tightly regulated, with the federal government essentially deciding which airlines could fly which routes. That level of regulation may have been necessary to get the airline industry kicked off in the 30’s and 40’s but by the early 70’s it only served to keep the established major carriers in an entrenched monopoly. Fares went up, quality of service went down, and expansion of service to other cities stagnated. Small start-up airlines like Southwest came up with various loopholes to evade the regulations (like in SW’s case they only flew in Texas) and _were_ able to start offering lower cost service to cities that were being poorly-served by the big carriers. That eventually helped underscore some of the fundamental problems with the domestic airline market, leading to deregulation at the end of the 70’s. After that the low-cost carriers flourished and the major carriers either improved prices and service to compete or died. Bag fees and other penny-pinching measures aside, deregulation made the situation _vastly_ better for air travelers. I’m hoping Uber ends up being a similar kick in the pants to the taxi industry. Back in the 70’s those entrenched airlines were making the same arguments against deregulation that the taxi industry (and their apologists) are making today against Uber. They’re basically trying to trick people into believing that removal of government measures originally designed to assure the economic health of the industry (but which now only assure the economic health of a handful of players) is the same thing as removal of government measures to assure the safety of the industry. The old airlines tried to imply that removal of CAB oversight of the industry would be tantamount to removing FAA oversight of air safety and that with deregulation there’s be planes breaking down and falling out of the sky. The taxi companies are trying to argue the same thing that without a taxi medallion and a chauffer’s license you’re basically putting your life at risk, when in reality those government measures are pretty much 100% about keeping the taxi companies in business not keeping them safe. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/114 "2015-03-04T23:56:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Runaway capitalism worsens all of our lives. Yeah, by making it easier to get a ride at busy times, that really makes everyone’s life worse. You’re quite the moron, here. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/115 "2015-03-05T00:50:35Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That’s puzzling me as well. All I’m bothered about is whether a service is > a) at the right price point > b) giving me what I want > > I do not care one jot whether the existing taxi model can be sustained. > > I’m assuming of course that vehicle inspection laws and driver licensing laws are being adhered to. If that is the main beef then fine, I’d be all for cracking down hard on any car and driver, uber or otherwise, that isn’t safe. Other than that…meh, good luck to them. If they can get me there at the right price then they’ll get my business. If they fail to do so then they won’t survive anyway. I think the last is the key point. There’s still some ambiguous situations where there may be no insurance coverage. As a case in point, there’s a lawsuit going on right now where an Uber driver killed a little girl in San Francisco. Uber has denied insurance protection because at the time, he was not actually transporting a passenger, he was just driving around looking for a fare, checking his smartphone app. On the other hand, it’s not clear that his personal policy would cover him either, as discussed in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/116 "2015-03-05T01:34:42Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Uber has denied insurance protection because at the time, he was not actually transporting a passenger, he was just driving around looking for a fare, checking his smartphone app. That’s an unusual definition of “Ridesharing”, isn’t it? I mean, he was looking for a fare because he: > [@Fenris](#): > > :rolleyes: > > This is an idiotic argument. It’s essentially carpooling and chipping in for gas. Not “a criminal syndicate”. Was looking for someone to carpool with, who would chip in for gas? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/117 "2015-03-05T02:18:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > People only use taxis when mass transit sucks. That’s an independent issue. Medallions aren’t the solution there; better mass transit is. Not in my city. We have very good, truly 24/7 mass transit and still have a huge taxi fleet, and there was still room for Uber to get significant business. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/118 "2015-03-05T02:39:53Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Not in my city. We have very good, truly 24/7 mass transit and still have a huge taxi fleet, and there was still room for Uber to get significant business. I was a bit flippant with that remark. Even a great mass transit system doesn’t go everywhere you want. That’s just the nature of it. They only go where it makes sense to build extra infrastructure (subway stations, etc.), and by definition act in a “batch” mode where you might have to wait a while for the train/bus/etc. to show up. **Smapti** was speaking in the context of taxis (and Uber) stealing business from mass transit. I don’t see that happening unless the mass transit sucks. Taxis fill the inevitable gaps in mass transit coverage. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/119 "2015-03-05T03:00:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You stood outside, in the freezing cold and then in the snow, for 55 minutes when there was a bar within sight that you could walk to in just a minute or two? Are you fucking brain damaged? Who said anything about “within sight?” It was a mile. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/120 "2015-03-05T03:11:53Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I was a bit flippant with that remark. Even a great mass transit system doesn’t go everywhere you want. That’s just the nature of it. They only go where it makes sense to build extra infrastructure (subway stations, etc.), and by definition act in a “batch” mode where you might have to wait a while for the train/bus/etc. to show up. > > **Smapti** was speaking in the context of taxis (and Uber) stealing business from mass transit. I don’t see that happening unless the mass transit sucks. Taxis fill the inevitable gaps in mass transit coverage. NYC is an outlier when it comes to mass transit. It pretty much does go everywhere, just not always conveniently (getting from Queens to Brooklyn or vice versa is a nightmare). Taxis fill a gap in a place where car ownership truly is optional (and often inconvenient) and where there is a large number of 1%ers (and those who act like 1%ers) who are too ‘good’ for the unwashed masses. Taxi services and ridesharing services don’t necessarily steal from mass transit, especially given the different price points in most (if not all) markets where mass transit is available. They can simply serve a different niche. And that niche was being underserved, else Uber wouldn’t have been able to swoop in and gain so much business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=7)