# Uber Uber Alles **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105 "2015-03-03T17:23:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/141 "2015-03-05T22:32:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I have zero faith in the taxi regulators. And how much faith do you have in the _complete and total absence of regulation_ that Uber offers? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/142 "2015-03-05T22:36:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m sorry the cabbie you hailed was shit. > > Is there some inherent feature of Uber that _prevents_ people like that from driving their vehicles? No, there is not. They get rated after every ride. Bad ratings and they’re out. I’ve never had a bad Uber diver in about 100 rides. I’d say taxi divers are about 50% fine, 40% below expectations, and 10% horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/143 "2015-03-05T22:39:42Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Still waiting to hear how Uber has made our lives worse. They threaten the safety of their passengers by employing people who have not been licensed to drive commercially. They threaten the safety of their drivers by encouraging them to drive while using a phone app. They further threaten their drivers by putting them in a legal category where they have no healthcare, no workman’s comp, and no tax withholding, and then encouraging them to hit the road during severe and unsafe conditions in exchange for a bigger payout. They threaten the safety of pedestrians and other motorists by combination of the above two factors. They threaten legal taxi companies by refusing to abide by the laws that govern for-hire transport. They rob the municipality, and by extension _every person living therein_, by refusing to pay the proper taxes on for-hire transport services, thus depriving the polis of dollars that could go to vital infrastructure spending. They threaten _every freedom-loving person in this or any other country_ by asserting that they are above the law and by using their ill-gotten billions of dollars (earned by cheating the taxpayer, their employees, and their customers as described above) to rewrite the law in favor of their avarice. They are the rightful enemy of any person who dares consider themselves a progressive, and they’ve hoodwinked you by pretending that they’re some underdogs who everyone’s out to get because they have an app and they’re thinking outside the box. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/144 "2015-03-05T22:44:55Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > My license allows me to have passengers in the car. If you’ve accepted money for the express purpose of taking them somewhere, they cease being “passengers” and at least in some states you are required to have a chauffeur or commercial driver’s license. Getting cited for this in Michigan is a $145 fine. > [@](#): > > I have insurance, if his doesn’t pay, mine will. read your policy closely. you may not be covered at all if you’re using your vehicle as a taxi. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/145 "2015-03-05T22:48:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They threaten the safety of their passengers by employing people who have not been licensed to drive commercially. > > They threaten the safety of their drivers by encouraging them to drive while using a phone app. > > They further threaten their drivers by putting them in a legal category where they have no healthcare, no workman’s comp, and no tax withholding, and then encouraging them to hit the road during severe and unsafe conditions in exchange for a bigger payout. > > They threaten the safety of pedestrians and other motorists by combination of the above two factors. > > They threaten legal taxi companies by refusing to abide by the laws that govern for-hire transport. > > They rob the municipality, and by extension _every person living therein_, by refusing to pay the proper taxes on for-hire transport services, thus depriving the polis of dollars that could go to vital infrastructure spending. > > They threaten _every freedom-loving person in this or any other country_ by asserting that they are above the law and by using their ill-gotten billions of dollars (earned by cheating the taxpayer, their employees, and their customers as described above) to rewrite the law in favor of their avarice. > > They are the rightful enemy of any person who dares consider themselves a progressive, and they’ve hoodwinked you by pretending that they’re some underdogs who everyone’s out to get because they have an app and they’re thinking outside the box. So, in places like Seattle, where they reached an agreement with the authorities, it’s all cool? The app is nice, but a cab company could do the same thing. It’s the experience that’s the game changer. It’s like being able to push a button and get out of the middle seat in row 28 of a plane and moving up to 2A in first class. The cab monopoly is a model that needs to die. ETA. cab drivers are treated like crap. The owners consider them independent contractors and they get very little money and no benefits. And they have to work crappy shifts to retain the right to drive. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/146 "2015-03-05T22:49:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Jesus Christ, quit assuming shit that isn’t there. I waited in the covered entryway of a school because I was told the taxi would be there in “10-20 minutes.” Because I used be a taxi driver, I know dispatch lies to customers, so I doublechecked that that was a real time they could do, and he said it was. When it didn’t show, I called back and was told a taxi was on its way, so I waited awhile longer. When it still didn’t show and flurries turned into a snowstorm, I trudged off in search of civilization. > > If they told me it was gonna be an hour, obviously I would have made other plans, but they kept stringing me along. Which may or not have been dispatch’s fault, since drivers lie to dispatch, too. Drivers will give dispatch unrealistic arrival times so the call doesn’t get reassigned, and/or they’ll pick up another fare en route and figure on getting back to the first guy afterwards. Dispatch lies to customers so they don’t call another taxi service or wander off. And customers, when they’re smart (which I was not, my mind being on my brother and the thousands of dollars in car repair he was facing) lie to dispatch and say that they’re going to the airport even when they’re not, because if they think you’re a $40 fare, dispatch and the driver will pick you up and tell lies to some other poor schmuck across town. > > Why, it’s almost like the whole service model is fucked up and deeply inefficient. I wonder if there’s any way technology might help with that. Thanks for the clarification, **furt**. I’m glad to know that you haven’t been kicked in the head by a mule recently or anything. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/147 "2015-03-05T22:56:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They threaten the safety of their passengers by employing people who have not been licensed to drive commercially. Incidentally, in the State of Washington you don’t actually need a special license to drive a taxi. A lot of the municipalities require you to get a permit, but the test you have to take is mostly about geography not safety. Here’s a practice test for King County: [Online For-Hire Practice Examination](http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=NjM4Njc3UPP2) But you’ve been told about a billion times in this test that taxi licensing has virtually nothing to do with safety, but have been willfully ignoring it so I’m not really sure why I’m even trying. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/148 "2015-03-05T23:00:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The cab monopoly is a model that needs to die. The cab monopoly is dead, long live the Uber monopoly? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/149 "2015-03-05T23:09:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The cab monopoly is dead, long live the Uber monopoly? The Uber model is easily to copy, at least in theory. I don’t see them becoming a monopoly. If they do, we can all join you in bitching about them. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/150 "2015-03-05T23:16:15Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They threaten the safety of their passengers by employing people who have not been licensed to drive commercially. And what’s so magical about this license that makes them so much safer? I’ve had plenty of experiences with unsafe taxi drivers. Including one that was flat out drunk. > [@](#): > > They threaten the safety of their drivers by encouraging them to drive while using a phone app. LOL, they do not. When I’ve been in the car, I’ve never seen one fiddle with their phone. Most of the time the phone is mounted on the dash so they can look at the GPS. > [@](#): > > They further threaten their drivers by putting them in a legal category where they have no healthcare, no workman’s comp, and no tax withholding, and then encouraging them to hit the road during severe and unsafe conditions in exchange for a bigger payout. This is also true for any contractor hired by a company. > [@](#): > > They threaten the safety of pedestrians and other motorists by combination of the above two factors. Again, false, for reasons posted above. > [@](#): > > They threaten legal taxi companies by refusing to abide by the laws that govern for-hire transport. They rob the municipality, and by extension _every person living therein_, by refusing to pay the proper taxes on for-hire transport services, thus depriving the polis of dollars that could go to vital infrastructure spending. [/quote] They’re not breaking any laws unless you can prove to me Uber is deliberately working in areas where it has been banned. > [@](#): > > They threaten _every freedom-loving person in this or any other country_ by asserting that they are above the law and by using their ill-gotten billions of dollars (earned by cheating the taxpayer, their employees, and their customers as described above) to rewrite the law in favor of their avarice. > > They are the rightful enemy of any person who dares consider themselves a progressive, and they’ve hoodwinked you by pretending that they’re some underdogs who everyone’s out to get because they have an app and they’re thinking outside the box. Your bombastic claims are both false and paranoid. Like the Taxi lobbyists have never tried to influence legislation in their favor. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/151 "2015-03-05T23:17:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They threaten the safety of their passengers by employing people who have not been licensed to drive commercially. You mention “safety” a lot. **GreasyJack** showed that the taxi driver certification (if it exists at all) has little to do with safety, but let’s ignore that for the moment. I ask this: what is the fundamental difference between driving with passengers vs. driving with _paying_ passengers that demands extra safety regulation? This isn’t like a bus or airplane situation where dozens or hundreds of lives are at risk, and where simply controlling the vehicle requires intense training. It’s just an ordinary car. Most people are content to ride in a stranger’s car anyway, so what’s fundamentally different in the situation when the passenger is paying? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/152 "2015-03-05T23:18:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > But hey, enjoy your libertarian fantasy while it lasts. Given that you’re the authoritarian freak with a cop-fellatio fetish who believes police can do no wrong under any circumstances, you’d be the last person I trust to define “libertarian fantasy”. Hell–Pat Buchanan and Mussolini’s love child would be less authoritarian than you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/153 "2015-03-05T23:19:14Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If they do, we can all join you in bitching about them. Sure, let’s just focus on the short-term, immediate-gratification, this-ride-is-mildly-better-than-a-yellow-cab experience and ignore the long term consequences. Let’s pretend we don’t all know that in three or four years (if even that) Uber is going to buy out Lyft and its other competitors for some absurd amount of billions. Let’s pretend that they won’t drive independent taxis worldwide out of business and force the ones remaining into working for them out of economic necessity. Let’s pretend that they won’t have the money to buy off Republican congressmen and state legislators to rewrite the law so that they’re the only ones able to fully exploit the public demand for taxi service. Let’s pretend that they won’t treat the Third World like their own petty fiefdom. We can deal with all of that _later_, right? Let’s just hope that someone else 70 or 80 years from now comes up with a “better” idea to displace the tyrannical monopoly we embraced in the hopes that it would end tyrannical monopolies, right? Who even cares, we’ll be dead by then, it’s not our problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/154 "2015-03-05T23:20:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I ask this: what is the fundamental difference between driving with passengers vs. driving with _paying_ passengers that demands extra safety regulation? In the latter scenario, you have accepted financial and moral responsibility for _the preservation of a human life_. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/155 "2015-03-05T23:21:36Z")
> [@The Red Cross/Solutions](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-cross-solutions/93159/1): > > read your policy closely. you may not be covered at all if you’re using your vehicle as a taxi. I was referring to myself as a passenger. I have health insurance should the driver get in a wreck. I don’t really care if the Uber driver is covered. That’s his responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/156 "2015-03-05T23:22:08Z")
Right. Why is that even a difficult question? The current system serves no one well, certain,y not the drivers or passengers, whom you seem to care about. ETA. This was in response to this. > [@](#): > > We can deal with all of that later, right? Let’s just hope that someone else 70 or 80 years from now comes up with a “better” idea to displace the tyrannical monopoly we embraced in the hopes that it would end tyrannical monopolies, right? Who even cares, we’ll be dead by then, it’s not our problem, right? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/157 "2015-03-05T23:23:48Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I have health insurance should the driver get in a wreck. I don’t really care if the Uber driver is covered. That’s his responsibility. I, on the other hand, actually _do_ care if the person I’m employing is putting themselves in risk of life and limb for my benefit. And if their employer is willing to leave them dying in the gutter, then I consider that a _serious problem_. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/158 "2015-03-05T23:29:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I, on the other hand, actually _do_ care if the person I’m employing is putting themselves in risk of life and limb for my benefit. > > And if their employer is willing to leave them dying in the gutter, then I consider that a _serious problem_. Again, they’re CONTRACTORS. Companies don’t typically pay for their contractor’s health care. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/159 "2015-03-05T23:30:42Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Let’s pretend that they won’t treat the Third World like their own petty fiefdom. That slope you’ve got there would make [one hell of a slip and slide](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhyZotVl8Og). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105/160 "2015-03-05T23:31:49Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Again, they’re CONTRACTORS. Companies don’t typically pay for their contractor’s health care. I’m aware of that. It’s no less wrong when Uber does it than when WWE does it to their “independent contractors” that suffer multiple concussions and broken bones that they don’t pay for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uber-uber-alles/714105.md?page=9)