# Uday and Qusay Hussein **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676 "2003-05-27T01:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/1 "2003-05-27T01:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Uday’s bodyguards picked up the signal and walked through the darkened room, flicking cigarette lighters as they approached the girl’s table. Uday, then 33, flipped on his too, confirming they had identified the right one. When the girl left the table for the powder room, Uday’s bodyguards approached her with a choice, says Shabaan, who was Uday’s business manager. She could ascend the platform now and congratulate Uday on his recovery, or she could call him on his private phone that night. Flustered, she apologized and said her parents would allow neither. One of the guards replied, “This is the chance of your life” and promised she would receive diamonds and a car. “All you have to do is go up there for 10 minutes,” he urged. When she demurred again, the bodyguards pursued Uday’s backup plan. They maneuvered the girl in the direction of the parking lot, picked her up and carried her to the backseat of Uday’s car, covering her mouth to muffle her screams. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030602-454453,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030602-454453,00.html) What goes into making people evil like this? Genetics? Upbringing? Unbridaled power? ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/2 "2003-05-27T01:32:33Z")
I don’t think genetics is the reason, although I think you’re spot on with your second and third guess. ---
**Author:** ![LolaCocaCola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@LolaCocaCola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaCocaCola)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/3 "2003-05-27T03:11:46Z")
Ugh!!! VULGAR! GROTESQUE! INEXCUSABLE!!! Of _course_ I’m talking about the circa 1987 Cosby Show [sweaters](http://i.timeinc.net/time/daily/2003/0305/brothers0524.jpg) the scumbags are wearing. :o ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/4 "2003-05-27T03:40:52Z")
From the show that was on the History Channel today, the OP story was one of Uday’s mild mannered nights. I for one will say that all three possible causes listed in the OP played a part in making him the person he was/is. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/5 "2003-05-27T08:19:13Z")
I have heard far, far worse from Iraqi friends here. Of a girl kidnapped, gangraped for a month, starved, and fed to wild dogs. Of young girls kept hidden away by their parents from the age of ten or eleven, because they were growing pretty enough to attract attention from Saddam’s sons. I really hope that the coalition does what they initially said they would, and had these monsters over to the Iraqi people to prosecute and punish, by their own chosen methods. The prospect of either of the sons managing to scrape some sort of amnesty deal is a travesty against all humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Mandelstam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Mandelstam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandelstam)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/6 "2003-05-27T14:50:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Atreyu \* > \*\*I don’t think genetics is the reason, although I think you’re spot on with your second and third guess. \*\* Well, I’d agree that a failure to bridle power can result in a seriously screwed up and dangerous individual. But I’d hesitate to bring in marital status. \ ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/7 "2003-05-27T16:02:52Z")
Iraqi families are traditionally tight knit and Uday was Saddam’s favorite. One day when Uday was in the second grade he misxbehaved and was scolded by his teacher. She was afterwards kiddnaped and jailed by Uday’s bodyguards and batted about a bit. Uday recieved only the highest of marks during the rest of his school career. Uday inhearated his father’s strong sense of family. After High School he was appointed Overseeer of Iraqi’s Oil Concession. Uday was much feared and ill behaved, so at one particular State dinner he was pointedly not invited to attend by his father. Uday fummed and got drunk and had a small part at his own palace. Soon one of Uday’s spys drove up and reported that Saddam’s long- time chief Chef and whispered that Saddam was “wink,wink” indisposed, meaning that Saddam had retired to a bedroom with his concubine of several years, hardly a state secret. Angered, Uday jumped into a car, drove to the State dinner, shot the startled Chef point blank in the head , told the astonished onlookers that the Chef had insulted his mother. Then he told the band to resume playing and he left. The next day Uday hidout. His daddy, Saddam Hussein, was very very mad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/8 "2003-05-28T00:14:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Iraqi families are traditionally tight knit and Uday was Saddam’s favorite. My understanding has always been the opposite, because Saddam chose Qusay as his successor. A recent article on the subject in Time describes Uday’s relationship with his father (some of it the son’s words) as quite distant. Uday was a hothead - and he may have been head of the oil concession, but Qusay was chief of the secret police. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/9 "2003-05-28T02:00:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by istara \* > \*\*I have heard far, far worse from Iraqi friends here. Of a girl kidnapped, gangraped for a month, starved, and fed to wild dogs. > > \*\* Are you talking about Uday doing these things or various individuals in the iraqi government? ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/10 "2003-05-28T11:00:56Z")
In defense of **Uday** \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ What?!!! .:smack: Well _Mr. Calculus_, \* istara\* didn’t say that \*\* Uday\*\* did all of those nasty things that he reported. **Uday** could of, but he was was busy elsewhere and couldn’t spare the time. And _Marley23_; **Uday** was always **Saddam’s** favorite until he shot\*\* Saddam’s\*\* Chef. **Qusay** just wasn’t all that lovable. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/11 "2003-05-28T16:48:44Z")
Does this really tell us anything we didn’t already know? That the spoiled rich children of powerful men can turn into megalomaniacs who do whatever the hell they want, because they believe laws don’t apply to them? ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/12 "2003-05-28T17:36:59Z")
Note the mindset of Uday and Qusay - the now deposed inheritors of a mob controlled Iraq. I’ve seen Uday’s style of ‘people objectification’ in the actions of other individuals throughout history. The serial rapes, the branding of women, the numbering of humans, the medical experiments, and the fascination with methods of torture _don’t_ depict a unique mind. So, the concerns over their desires for nuclear weapons and other WMD aside, the point I’m making here is this – it wouldn’t have been over with the passing of the 60+ year old Saddam whether he lived another 2 years or 30. The torch would have passed to a new generation and would have possibly continued beyond our lifetimes. Millions more would have been killed through unthinkable means during that period. Additional millions would have suffered the fates of those described in the article. In fact, judging from Uday’s past and near present use and misuse of people it probably would have gotten worse, if that’s possible, rather than better. It takes more and more to get the same thrill and I don’t think these things are subject to spontaneous healings. And Uday, with the power he had while under his father’s oversight, still managed the unthinkable. With his fathers power the indications certainly didn’t paint a rosy picture for the innocents within his grasp. One doesn’t have to leave the sphere of near ‘perfect’ power to commit horrendous crimes against humanity. Stalin harvested 20,000,000 Soviet souls without leaving the country. Saddam was a great admirer of Stalin and in fact, studied Stalin’s methods on maintaining control. Hitler killed millions of innocents within and, as his influence spread, outside of Germany. All of this occurred within the lifetimes of some on the board – ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/13 "2003-05-28T23:38:42Z")
OK Gang, anyone want to defend **Saddam, Uday** and **Qusay**? ---
**Author:** ![MikeRochenelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/49beb7/32.png) [@MikeRochenelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeRochenelle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/14 "2003-05-29T03:30:40Z")
I’m a pretty dyed in the wool liberal. I opposed the invasion of Iraq, and I want to see W Bush impeached. I still refuse to defend Saddam or his sons. They are the kind of people I would like to see rotting in jail for the rest of their lives. Uday and Qusay are chips off the old block, though certanly less clever or subtle than ol’ dad. Frankly I don’t know anyone who _likes_ Saddam. Any more than anyone likes Stalin or Hitler. I run in fairly liberal circles, and I’ve never heard anyone defend him. Never. But two wrong don’t make a right. The US invading Iraq because we don’t like Saddam is morally equivalent to Saddam invading the US because he hates George Bush Sr. - which he does, very much. But I’m digressing. The OP is about what makes people this way. I say: all three of the proposed explanations. Study Saddam. Research his history. Read this excellent article about him in The Atlantic: > **[Tales of the Tyrant](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2002/05/tales-of-the-tyrant/302480/)** > > What does Saddam Hussein see in himself that no one else in the world seems to see? The answer is perhaps best revealed by the intimate details of the Iraqi leader's daily life And then imagine if, instead of growing up alone in a small town in the middle of the desert, he grew up as the son of a military tyrant with power over a whole nation. I don’t think the apple would fall far from the tree. And indeed Uday and Qusay have not. -Ben ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/15 "2003-05-29T05:38:11Z")
[quote] OK Gang, anyone want to defend Saddam, Uday and Qusay? [quote] No. MikeRochenelle summed up my feelings about the war and about those three quite nicely. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/16 "2003-05-29T15:54:32Z")
This reminds me of a question I had. I had always heard that Saddam and possibly Qusay were behind the attempted assassination of Uday that resulted from one of his idiotic acts. But when I watched the History Channel’s “Sons of Saddam” the other day, the said that while family involvement was rumoured, Saddam was not behind the attempt. Does anyone know any more about that? ---
**Author:** ![frithrah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ad7895/32.png) [@frithrah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frithrah)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/17 "2003-05-29T16:06:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Does this really tell us anything we didn’t already know? That the spoiled rich children of powerful men can turn into megalomaniacs who do whatever the hell they want, because they believe laws don’t apply to them? \*\* Did you really have to bring up George W? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/18 "2003-05-29T16:54:19Z")
I would think that if Saddam wanted Uday dead, it would happen immediately and without the pretense of an assasination. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/19 "2003-05-29T17:33:40Z")
What does it mean? That bad people are actually often held back by laws and the police, and when those go away, nothing is out of bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676/20 "2003-05-30T01:15:32Z")
\*Did you really have to bring up George W? \* Yes **frithrah** , \*\* rjung\*\* did. He wanted to show that in America, even the indolent sons of the rich can rise beyond their pampered unbringings and become men of destiny and lead the american people to high glory yet undreamed . _… I had always heard that Saddam and possibly Qusay were behind the attempted assassination of Uday that resulted from one of his idiotic acts. But when I watched the History Channel’s “Sons of Saddam” the other day, the said that while family involvement was rumoured, Saddam was not behind the attempt. Does anyone know any more about that?_ According to an Iraqi on the spot **5-HT** , the ambushers of Uday’s car at the intersection were one of the few anti-saddam groups active in Iraq during that time. Uday had already been punished for his indiscretions by a demotion and a couple of days in jail and had promised everyone he would behave. Uday’s brother Qusay was a cowardly muderer and would never have dared act without Daddy’s full blessing. As I remember, two of Uday’s bodyguards were killed and Uday recieved a disabilitating wound that persists to this day. (Of course, it only persists if he is still alive.) The entire affair was hushed up by Saddam Hussein because of his fear of being thought vulnerable to assassination. - Even vermin like their offspring vermin.\* [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uday-and-qusay-hussein/177676.md?page=2)