# Ug. Maybe Media DOES want women to be too skinny.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 2, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492 "2007-05-02T17:19:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Johnny\_Hildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Hildo)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/41 "2007-05-02T22:31:12Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
That’s right. He said Marilyn Monroe was too fat. What the living God Damn Fuck? She was the icon of sex for a generation.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but so was [she.](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Makeup/2709/theda2.jpg) Would you fuck that? I wouldn’t. Hey, tastes change over time.
---
### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/42 "2007-05-02T22:42:29Z")
[QUOTE=alice\_in\_wonderland]
Well, if **WhyNot’s** numbers are correct, Marilyn would wear about a size 4 or 6 today, which really isn’t particularly fat, by any definition. (The whole “Marilyn was a size 14?!?!?!” schtick has been thoroughly debunked).
[/QUOTE]
The numbers were my own personal measurements of me back in the day (however the bra size is a typo, that should read 34D, not 37D, sorry), and I verified my memory that they were within Marilyn’s range at the Snopes page debunking the “Marilyn was a size 16!” myth: [here](http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm)
Granted, my waist was a teeny bit bigger than hers, but I also never wore a corset, much less did waist training to trim my waist via corset. Lots of her best dresses rely on formidable undergarments.
---
### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/43 "2007-05-02T22:44:19Z")
[QUOTE=zut]
I did. Those that cite a source (like ([this one](http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,21645224-5006343,00.html), [this one](http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070502/ENT07/705020381/1035), and [this one](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20070429_Sideshow__.html)) cite [_The Hollywood Reporter_](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com).
Luckily, [your link](http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2007/04/nicole_kidman_actual_millionaire.html) has another link directly to [the article in question](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ia76075fe469ef9a41f5a6a8d477764c4) in _The Hollywood Reporter_.
Which says nothing at all like the quote you mention, gullible entertainment and gossip reporters notwithstanding.
I vote whoosh.
[/QUOTE]
Um… Most of your cites include the very quote I’m bitching about. Do we have some logical disconnect here? Are you saying that the quote is apocrophal? And if so, how?
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### Author:  [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/44 "2007-05-02T23:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
Um… Most of your cites include the very quote I’m bitching about. Do we have some logical disconnect here? Are you saying that the quote is apocrophal? And if so, how?
[/QUOTE]
**Zut** is saying that all of those (with the quote) are citing the Hollywood Reporter as the source of the quote… but the Hollywood Reporter _doesn’t_ have it. So where did that “quote from the Hollywood Reporter” come from?
Note: It is, however, possible that there is a longer version of the article in either the print version or the version for subscribers only that _does_ have the quote.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/45 "2007-05-02T23:11:01Z")
> [@Johnny Hildo](#):
>
> Yeah, but so was she. Would you fuck that? I wouldn’t.
Bet you would if you saw her like [this](http://silentladies.com/Bara/Bara125.jpg), or like [this](http://silentladies.com/Bara/Bara81.jpg). (Okay, maybe the second picture would be more attractive without the skeleton. The accompanying skeleton, I mean, not Theda’s own skeleton, which IMO is a pretty indispensable part of her physical appeal.)
Yes, the silly silent-movie “exotic” costume dramas and the raccoon eye makeup and smoldering-glare “sultry” expressions of the period didn’t do Theda Bara any favors, but she was actually quite a pretty woman. And she wasn’t fat either.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/46 "2007-05-02T23:16:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Lots of her best dresses rely on formidable undergarments.
Like the one in **Contrapuntal** ’s link.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/47 "2007-05-02T23:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
The numbers were my own personal measurements of me back in the day (however the bra size is a typo, that should read 34D, not 37D, sorry), and I verified my memory that they were within Marilyn’s range at the Snopes page debunking the “Marilyn was a size 16!” myth: [here](http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.htm)
Granted, my waist was a teeny bit bigger than hers, but I also never wore a corset, much less did waist training to trim my waist via corset. Lots of her best dresses rely on formidable undergarments.
[/QUOTE]
Wait. You are of the opinion that your “15 years ago” pic was fat? You have severe body issues then.
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### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/48 "2007-05-02T23:23:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre]
Wait. You are of the opinion that your “15 years ago” pic was fat? You have severe body issues then.
[/QUOTE]
I was of the opinion THEN that I was fat, because lots of people told me so and I jiggled. Now I think I had a damn fine body back then!
But that was my point - yes, I’m totally prepared to believe that Marilyn Monroe is described as fat 'cause I had her body and was likewise described as fat. Curves = fat in some people’s worldview, no matter how sexy others find it.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/49 "2007-05-02T23:45:08Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
**Zut** is saying that all of those (with the quote) are citing the Hollywood Reporter as the source of the quote… but the Hollywood Reporter _doesn’t_ have it. So where did that “quote from the Hollywood Reporter” come from?
It is, however, possible that there is a longer version of the article in either the print version or the version for subscribers only that _does_ have the quote.
[/QUOTE]
Noted. But again, my point still holds. We can’t track down the origin of the quote, (this type of thing isn’t going to show up on the front page of the _Wall Street Journal_) but the message keeps getting printed. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that some studio exec actually DID say it.
It’s in print, which means that the idea of Marilyn Monroe being fat is out there. Some of the articles that use the quote in question may be written by people who take it as ridiculous as I do, but people actually do think this way. You can see it in this very thread. I mean, really, come on. Is Marilyn not hot enough?
For Christsakes, I may have not stated it clearly enough in my OP, but I once argued that the our society doesn’t actually like stick figured women. I guess I was wrong.
I can just imagine what the studio executive asshole (and some of the assholes in this thread) would say upon meeting Aphrodite. “Good face, but she needs to lose a few pounds.”
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/50 "2007-05-02T23:58:05Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
Yeah, but so was [she.](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Makeup/2709/theda2.jpg) Would you fuck that? I wouldn’t. Hey, tastes change over time.
[/QUOTE]
To hell with Theda Bara, anyone around here want to have a go at [the original sex symbol?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_figurine)
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### Author:  [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/51 "2007-05-03T00:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
Noted. But again, my point still holds. We can’t track down the origin of the quote, (this type of thing isn’t going to show up on the front page of the _Wall Street Journal_) but the message keeps getting printed. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that some studio exec actually DID say it.
[/QUOTE]
No, not really.
Press releases aren’t _supposed_ to be altered, but sometimes hoaxes and deliberate corruptions make it through to even some of the major news outlets. There have been a few embarassing ones too, where people snagged storeis off the line and didn’t bother verifying the facts themselves. If I can remember any good example I’ll link to them.
Most of the version of that same article I’ve seen (and I was scouring the internet) are almost identical _except_ that the “fat Marylin” quote is absent. There _might_ be a studio exec out there who is stupid enough to risk his/her job that way, but it’s looks like there is an “altered” version of the press release floating around out there.
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### Author:  [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/52 "2007-05-03T00:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
[http://fatboy.cc/images/marilyn%20monroe%201.jpg](http://fatboy.cc/images/marilyn%20monroe%201.jpg) : Yeah, she was fat. NSFW. WARNING. NEKKID LADY.
You folks are insane. Fat? Man, there ain’t much room for deviation from the norm hereabouts, if she was fat.
[/QUOTE]
**Contrapuntal** , I broke your link. Please don’t take it as a chastisement, as you did clearly label it, but some posters asked that we maintain the two-click rule for optimum safety. I count the cut-and-paste step as one click. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/53 "2007-05-03T00:25:39Z")
Hey! Here’s an example of a “quote” that no one can trace in a [story by our beloved Chicago Reader](http://www.chicagoreader.com/hottype/2002/020628_1.html). And here is [another story](http://www.vh1.com/news/articles/1505441/20050708/omarion.jhtml?headlines=true) about fabricated quotes that got pulled off of the newswire. And then there was that story a couple years ago that Will Ferrell was killed in a hang-gliding accident. That story got picke dup by all sorts of news outlets.
I think there _are_ people who would think Marylin Monroe is “chubby” (I’m sure as hell not one of them), but I’m a bit skeptical that a Fox studio exec would make that statement in an official press release.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/54 "2007-05-03T01:10:40Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
I think there _are_ people who would think Marylin Monroe is “chubby”.
[/QUOTE]
There is at least one person here saying just that.
And if Marylin is considered fat Og help us all… :eek:
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### Author:  [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/55 "2007-05-03T01:18:42Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
Noted. But again, my point still holds. We can’t track down the origin of the quote, (this type of thing isn’t going to show up on the front page of the _Wall Street Journal_) but the message keeps getting printed. I think it’s a pretty safe bet that some studio exec actually DID say it.
[/QUOTE]
I think it’s a terrible bet. As far as I can tell, the first place it shows up is the page that [you linked to](http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/tags/nicole%20kidman). That page contains three quotes, all sourced:
“The original Millionaire was about a girl who was, frankly, kind of fat,” intoned studio reps. “Nicole is thin and perfect.” [Hollywood Reporter]
McKellen offended: “I can play any age,” he declares. “Gandalf was four hundred and eleventy-seven.” [Variety]
“Were Diana alive today, she would not like my music at all,” West says. “Mine either,” adds Allen. [NYT]
_None_ of these quotes actually appear in the linked articles. Why do you think that would be? I would hazard a guess that it’s because they’re _all made up._
The message “keeps getting printed” in the few places it is printed because the people who print it don’t bother to fact-check.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/56 "2007-05-03T01:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
Press releases aren’t _supposed_ to be altered, but sometimes hoaxes and deliberate corruptions make it through to even some of the major news outlets.
[/QUOTE]
> [@zut](#):
>
> The message “keeps getting printed” in the few places it is printed because the people who print it don’t bother to fact-check.
Does it really fucking matter?
I think y’all are missing one of my key points. Whether or not somebody said the quote in question is almost irrelevant; it’s in the press. I said it was a safe bet that somebody did say it, but maybe I’m wrong. Although, that’s irrelevant too.
This isn’t about facts. This is about _perception_. We all wish that the people who write these things fact check, but sadly, most media is interested more in profit than fact checking. It’s sensational…
So it get’s printed
And printed again.
No 14 year old girl is going to look at these articles and think to fact check. She’s going to come home with the message that the Hollywood standard of beauty is that Marilyn is too fat.
I hope that these articles that use the quote from an unnamed studio exec are in actuality railing against the ultra thin standard… but I wonder.
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### Author:  [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/57 "2007-05-03T02:06:32Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
I think y’all are missing one of my key points. Whether or not somebody said the quote in question is almost irrelevant; it’s in the press. I said it was a safe bet that somebody did say it, but maybe I’m wrong. Although, that’s irrelevant too.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but you have to think of it as a troll who sneaked something into the press. You get one of these :rolleyes: and save the outrage for someone with more credibility.
Marylin Monroe was undeniably hot and most of the articles that reprinted the dubious “quote” were sure to point out that the “unnamed source” is clealry stupid.
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### Author:  [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/58 "2007-05-03T02:12:49Z")
That troll got some play though, didn’t he? I read the initial quote in my local newspaper.
The idea itself is already in the zeitgeist.
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### Author:  [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/59 "2007-05-03T02:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
Does it really fucking matter?
[/quote]
I dunno. Since you were the one who was specifically pitting the asshole producer who said that Marilyn was fat, and NOT the article, I figured the existance of the producer would be important. But it’s your pitting, steer it as you see fit.
[QUOTE=A Monkey With a Gun]
This isn’t about facts. This is about _perception_.
[/QUOTE]
All right then.
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ug-maybe-media-does-want-women-to-be-too-skinny/402492/60 "2007-05-03T02:28:07Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
Yeah, but so was [she.](http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Makeup/2709/theda2.jpg) Would you fuck that? I wouldn’t. Hey, tastes change over time.
[/QUOTE]
I checked, I could not find a good picture of her. She really was unattractive. However, Nicole Kidman really is not very good looking either. There are some beautiful thin woman, Nicole is not one. Audrey Hepburn was.
Now as far as Theda, I thought Clara Bow was the biggest sex symbol. She was the It girl. [She was much more attractive.](http://images.google.com/images?num=50&hl=en&gbv=2&safe=off&q=Clara%20Bow&btnG=Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi)
[Myrna Loy](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Myrna+Loy&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2) was another great beauty of the 1920’s. She was gorgeous by the standards of then and now. [She was usually cast as an exotic however](http://www.filmbrain.com/photos/uncategorized/myrna_loy2.jpg).
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